@prufrock_91 said:
Not really on board with the 'Freeman must start' argument. Think although industrious, he's too slow and ponderous, delaying play with an exaggerated step-over rather than moving the ball quickly.
Most of the time his step overs result in him ending up in space away from his man so he can exaggerate them as much he likes as long it keeps working. He really must start
Even though the end result was a defeat, I felt there was only positives to take from the game. The two new lads at the back were outstanding for me, marshalled well by an phenominal Anthony Stewart. Excited to see that the debutants were comfortable bringing the ball out of defence & offering a new threat by dragging opposition defenders out of position. Nit picking, Allsop was hesitant again coming for a through ball. Twice, he started to come, stopped & retreated. The second time, it cost the goal. If he had continued his advance, he would have been able to smother the ball. Josh Parker was a bit of an enigma for me playing out wide, given he was the best header of a ball of the front three. Often stuck out on the touchline when the crosses were coming in, (being the provider on occasions), which left Kashket and Samuels as the "target men". It could of course be argued, that it it forced us to play a more passing game. The post match interview, Samuels mentioned that Parker was technically very good in training. Personally, I thought his 1st touch was very poor too often in the first half which I suspect/hope will improve with game time. Overall I believe there is reason for enthusiastic optimism for the season both on the field and throughout the club and am looking forward to Saturday.
@prufrock_91 , I'm probably fairly similar to you. I think he's decent in patches, but certainly no way he's got enough to get a regular start this season with the superb playing cast we have now.
Last night was a tidy enough game, both teams making loads of changes. Such a shame we let them have that hot 5mins so soon after we'd scored and let them back in.
Would have to see their goal again to see if one of the defenders was caught out or not. Either way unfortunate that the ball fell straight to their man after a firm enough save from Allsopp.
Parker won a couple of headers, but looked a fair bit off the pace, not helped by seemingly playing wide, which cannot be the position for someone without that much pace.
Did a few too many dives and over exaggerations for my liking as well.
Very early days for him though, he'll have to be patient and take his chances.
Bloomfield streets ahead of Freeman still sadly, experience and know how are massive to GA and Blooms has this in spades, when Curtis is fit then blooms will be under pressure.
Freeman last night (rankings within team in brackets):
Touches: 60 (2)
Accurate passes: 24 (1)
Key passes: 3 (1)
Crosses: 9 (1)
Accurate crosses: 4 (1)
Shots on target: 2 (1) - poor though they were
Tackles attempted: 4 (=1)
Ground duels won: 4 (=2)
It wasn't a perfect performance - there are things he didn't do so well - but it didn't have to be. If he didn't show enough to get en extended run in the side, starting on Saturday, then I don't know what more he has to do. He made a Championship midfield look silly at times.
@YorkExile Kashket was anonymous in the first half, got a bit more involved in the second and went close with a decent curling effort. Slipped over a bit in the first half, might have changed boots at HT! All in all, one of his quieter games.
I would expect Samuel to be the only one pushing to start on sat, Phillips was excellent but El And will play when fit and Stewart is showing why in my opinion he is better than Pierre, just pray he stays fit !!
Btw, if anyone's interested, sofascore.com now cover most League One games in good depth data-wise - that's where I get all the numbers from, all free.
I was assuming Parker would be the target man so surprised to hear he was wide. One would think that, with a few tweaks,the side that ran a Championship club close would have a good chance of getting some minutes against AFC Costco on Saturday?
Anyone who can watch Freeman produce those stats and rankings and still not rate him is suffering from confirmation bias, the tendency to pay attention to evidence that confirms what we already believe and ignore evidence that contradicts it. You already believe Freeman isn't good enough so you notice his two misplaced passes much more than his 24 accurate ones.
Not a criticism of anyone criticising Freeman, confirmation bias exists in all of us and is one of the strongest of the cognitive biases.
I thought last night was a great evening for our club, a real insight into the future with so many good performances from young, inexperienced players.
The midfield of Gape, Pattison and Freeman has got a lot going for it and really set the tone of a more fluid passing game along with the energy from the full-backs. I'd certainly like to see the same three on Saturday, with Blooms available off the bench if we need to tighten things up.
Like (some) others on here, I think Freeman was absolutely key. Having the ability to carry the ball forward into dangerous areas is a skill that too few players have - at times it was reminiscent of Kevin Betsy in his pomp. Every time he's been on the pitch this season we've looked more dangerous.
His move into the midfield three really seems to be working - pretty handily given we've loads of strikers and a relative lack of midfielders. Gape and Pattison also complement him well given their busier style of play.
One slight concern would be that he seems a bit light on confidence when he gets in sight of goal and missing his penalty probably won't do him any favours. A goal would do him the world of good.
I'm not sure anyone is "not rating" Freeman, or indulging in "confirmation bias".
Just preferring other players. In what is a terrific squad, our best ever.
Fred and Smyth out wide. Bayo centre.
3 from Pattison, Thompson, Gape and Wheeler. Bloomfield you feel will start a lot of games in there too.
He'll do very well to get a regular berth amongst these lads - and if he does, he'll have stepped up and deserved it - so it's win win!
Like (some) others on here, I think Freeman was absolutely key. Having the ability to carry the ball forward into dangerous areas is a skill that too few players have - at times it was reminiscent of Kevin Betsy in his pomp. Every time he's been on the pitch this season we've looked more dangerous.
Exactly this - particularly that last sentence. Pace and goals make him a top League One/possibly even Championship player. He's a serious talent.
Maybe liking Freeman is also an example of confirmation bias. A better attacking option than our other central midfielders certainly, but less good without the ball than them too.
I can’t see our first choice midfield three not being Thompson, Gape and Pattison if they are all fit.
I’m not convinced Wheeler is a central midfielder - I see him mostly as another attacking option alongside Fred, Smith, Kashket etc.
I think Freeman is good, and played well yesterday, but I'd expect to Wheeler to be a better starting midfielder. Ainsworth sees Freeman 4 days a week in training, so I imagine he has a better judge in the abilities than we do.
Wheeler is a wide forward - had his prolific season at Exeter playing there - or second striker, where he sometimes lined up at MK. Can play CM but not his primary position.
For me its about balance Chris, football so often is.
I agree he isn't as good off the ball as probably all our other midfielders - and he got a good rollicking off Gareth during the first half for losing a tackle he should have won.
Although, to be fair he's not too bad in that regard and won a fair few tackles and headers across the game as a whole.
The flipside of that is that he's much better on the ball than any of the other midfielders. The key is to find the right balance and I'm fairly comfortable that we've enough industry in the likes of Gape, Thompson, Pattison and Bloomfield to be able to accommodate Freeman and would be a better side overall for it.
@Chris good point on Wheeler, and I've certainly not seen much of him.
I'm probably making a presumption he'll be an attacking centre mid, as otherwise, giving a 3 year deal to a player to compete wide, when we already have Fred (3 year deal - will play most games), and Smyth (1 year deal - star quality - will play most games) seems to be an overwhelming amount of quality!
I suppose Fred can go central, but I'd imagine more often than not will be wide.
No need to get bogged down in individual comparisons between players, the point is that we now have the strongest squad we've had in years which means that we can tweak the team depending on the opposition, and rest players when needed without significantly weakening the whole. Pattison may start sometimes, Freeman may start others (for example), they may both start other times. I don't think we're definitively weaker or stronger either way, but some players may suit some opposition. It's an exciting place to be.
As for Anthony Stewart, the more I've thought about last night the more I've thought that that was more or less a 10 out of 10 performance. It was sublime. If Reading have got anything about them at all then surely they're sending scouts back to check if he's that good every week? He was Championship level with ease last night.
It’s good, and rather novel in recent years, to be in a position where we can debate the merits of multiple strong options for different positions.
(Although somewhere at the back of my mind there is always a concern that we can’t really afford all these players, but that’s a topic for a different thread I’m sure.)
I suspect Wheeler and Kashket might be there to give Smyth and Fred a rest if we carry on playing a 4-3-3...but as has been pointed out...it's nice to have a number of options.
Gareth seems to like a player who can either play on the side of midfield or as part of a front three.
agree with all of the above, but @Wendoverman , if Wheeler is cover, a 3 year deal is a pretty strong commitment to it!
Kashket also is on a 3 year deal, but I get the feeling that was done when we were expecting signings to be at a premium. - as much as I love the wee fella!
He must be a bit frustrated - that string of starts at the end of last season - then watches an array of attackers come in.
@Malone said:
agree with all of the above, but @Wendoverman , if Wheeler is cover, a 3 year deal is a pretty strong commitment to it!
Kashket also is on a 3 year deal, but I get the feeling that was done when we were expecting signings to be at a premium. - as much as I love the wee fella!
He must be a bit frustrated - that string of starts at the end of last season - then watches an array of attackers come in.
A good utility player is always useful @malone especially as we know as the season goes on Fred and Smyth are going to be kicked from.pillar to post and always an outside chance Smyth goes back to QPR. It's a long old sesson and I reckon he'll get plenty of minutes and then be well set for next season. As for Scotty I'm not sure where that leaves him as he gets no time to shine as brightly as he did.
@th100 said:
Wheeler is a wide forward - had his prolific season at Exeter playing there - or second striker, where he sometimes lined up at MK. Can play CM but not his primary position.
You could argue that throughout his time here, Freeman has mainly been played on the wing, and that CM is not his primary position either.
Comments
Most of the time his step overs result in him ending up in space away from his man so he can exaggerate them as much he likes as long it keeps working. He really must start
Even though the end result was a defeat, I felt there was only positives to take from the game. The two new lads at the back were outstanding for me, marshalled well by an phenominal Anthony Stewart. Excited to see that the debutants were comfortable bringing the ball out of defence & offering a new threat by dragging opposition defenders out of position. Nit picking, Allsop was hesitant again coming for a through ball. Twice, he started to come, stopped & retreated. The second time, it cost the goal. If he had continued his advance, he would have been able to smother the ball. Josh Parker was a bit of an enigma for me playing out wide, given he was the best header of a ball of the front three. Often stuck out on the touchline when the crosses were coming in, (being the provider on occasions), which left Kashket and Samuels as the "target men". It could of course be argued, that it it forced us to play a more passing game. The post match interview, Samuels mentioned that Parker was technically very good in training. Personally, I thought his 1st touch was very poor too often in the first half which I suspect/hope will improve with game time. Overall I believe there is reason for enthusiastic optimism for the season both on the field and throughout the club and am looking forward to Saturday.
@prufrock_91 , I'm probably fairly similar to you. I think he's decent in patches, but certainly no way he's got enough to get a regular start this season with the superb playing cast we have now.
Last night was a tidy enough game, both teams making loads of changes. Such a shame we let them have that hot 5mins so soon after we'd scored and let them back in.
Would have to see their goal again to see if one of the defenders was caught out or not. Either way unfortunate that the ball fell straight to their man after a firm enough save from Allsopp.
Parker won a couple of headers, but looked a fair bit off the pace, not helped by seemingly playing wide, which cannot be the position for someone without that much pace.
Did a few too many dives and over exaggerations for my liking as well.
Very early days for him though, he'll have to be patient and take his chances.
Bloomfield streets ahead of Freeman still sadly, experience and know how are massive to GA and Blooms has this in spades, when Curtis is fit then blooms will be under pressure.
Pușcaș looked a touch offside for the goal. Funny thing is, this competition has VAR, slight problem being it's only at Premier League grounds...
Freeman last night (rankings within team in brackets):
Touches: 60 (2)
Accurate passes: 24 (1)
Key passes: 3 (1)
Crosses: 9 (1)
Accurate crosses: 4 (1)
Shots on target: 2 (1) - poor though they were
Tackles attempted: 4 (=1)
Ground duels won: 4 (=2)
It wasn't a perfect performance - there are things he didn't do so well - but it didn't have to be. If he didn't show enough to get en extended run in the side, starting on Saturday, then I don't know what more he has to do. He made a Championship midfield look silly at times.
@EwanHoosaami *Samuel
All sounds very positive. It will be interesting to see who lines up on Saturday. How was Scotty K? Did he look sharp?
@YorkExile Kashket was anonymous in the first half, got a bit more involved in the second and went close with a decent curling effort. Slipped over a bit in the first half, might have changed boots at HT! All in all, one of his quieter games.
I would expect Samuel to be the only one pushing to start on sat, Phillips was excellent but El And will play when fit and Stewart is showing why in my opinion he is better than Pierre, just pray he stays fit !!
Btw, if anyone's interested, sofascore.com now cover most League One games in good depth data-wise - that's where I get all the numbers from, all free.
I was assuming Parker would be the target man so surprised to hear he was wide. One would think that, with a few tweaks,the side that ran a Championship club close would have a good chance of getting some minutes against AFC Costco on Saturday?
Anyone who can watch Freeman produce those stats and rankings and still not rate him is suffering from confirmation bias, the tendency to pay attention to evidence that confirms what we already believe and ignore evidence that contradicts it. You already believe Freeman isn't good enough so you notice his two misplaced passes much more than his 24 accurate ones.
Not a criticism of anyone criticising Freeman, confirmation bias exists in all of us and is one of the strongest of the cognitive biases.
I thought last night was a great evening for our club, a real insight into the future with so many good performances from young, inexperienced players.
The midfield of Gape, Pattison and Freeman has got a lot going for it and really set the tone of a more fluid passing game along with the energy from the full-backs. I'd certainly like to see the same three on Saturday, with Blooms available off the bench if we need to tighten things up.
Like (some) others on here, I think Freeman was absolutely key. Having the ability to carry the ball forward into dangerous areas is a skill that too few players have - at times it was reminiscent of Kevin Betsy in his pomp. Every time he's been on the pitch this season we've looked more dangerous.
His move into the midfield three really seems to be working - pretty handily given we've loads of strikers and a relative lack of midfielders. Gape and Pattison also complement him well given their busier style of play.
One slight concern would be that he seems a bit light on confidence when he gets in sight of goal and missing his penalty probably won't do him any favours. A goal would do him the world of good.
I'm not sure anyone is "not rating" Freeman, or indulging in "confirmation bias".
Just preferring other players. In what is a terrific squad, our best ever.
Fred and Smyth out wide. Bayo centre.
3 from Pattison, Thompson, Gape and Wheeler. Bloomfield you feel will start a lot of games in there too.
He'll do very well to get a regular berth amongst these lads - and if he does, he'll have stepped up and deserved it - so it's win win!
Exactly this - particularly that last sentence. Pace and goals make him a top League One/possibly even Championship player. He's a serious talent.
Maybe liking Freeman is also an example of confirmation bias. A better attacking option than our other central midfielders certainly, but less good without the ball than them too.
I can’t see our first choice midfield three not being Thompson, Gape and Pattison if they are all fit.
I’m not convinced Wheeler is a central midfielder - I see him mostly as another attacking option alongside Fred, Smith, Kashket etc.
I think Freeman is good, and played well yesterday, but I'd expect to Wheeler to be a better starting midfielder. Ainsworth sees Freeman 4 days a week in training, so I imagine he has a better judge in the abilities than we do.
Wheeler is a wide forward - had his prolific season at Exeter playing there - or second striker, where he sometimes lined up at MK. Can play CM but not his primary position.
For me its about balance Chris, football so often is.
I agree he isn't as good off the ball as probably all our other midfielders - and he got a good rollicking off Gareth during the first half for losing a tackle he should have won.
Although, to be fair he's not too bad in that regard and won a fair few tackles and headers across the game as a whole.
The flipside of that is that he's much better on the ball than any of the other midfielders. The key is to find the right balance and I'm fairly comfortable that we've enough industry in the likes of Gape, Thompson, Pattison and Bloomfield to be able to accommodate Freeman and would be a better side overall for it.
@Chris good point on Wheeler, and I've certainly not seen much of him.
I'm probably making a presumption he'll be an attacking centre mid, as otherwise, giving a 3 year deal to a player to compete wide, when we already have Fred (3 year deal - will play most games), and Smyth (1 year deal - star quality - will play most games) seems to be an overwhelming amount of quality!
I suppose Fred can go central, but I'd imagine more often than not will be wide.
No need to get bogged down in individual comparisons between players, the point is that we now have the strongest squad we've had in years which means that we can tweak the team depending on the opposition, and rest players when needed without significantly weakening the whole. Pattison may start sometimes, Freeman may start others (for example), they may both start other times. I don't think we're definitively weaker or stronger either way, but some players may suit some opposition. It's an exciting place to be.
As for Anthony Stewart, the more I've thought about last night the more I've thought that that was more or less a 10 out of 10 performance. It was sublime. If Reading have got anything about them at all then surely they're sending scouts back to check if he's that good every week? He was Championship level with ease last night.
It’s good, and rather novel in recent years, to be in a position where we can debate the merits of multiple strong options for different positions.
(Although somewhere at the back of my mind there is always a concern that we can’t really afford all these players, but that’s a topic for a different thread I’m sure.)
I suspect Wheeler and Kashket might be there to give Smyth and Fred a rest if we carry on playing a 4-3-3...but as has been pointed out...it's nice to have a number of options.
Gareth seems to like a player who can either play on the side of midfield or as part of a front three.
agree with all of the above, but @Wendoverman , if Wheeler is cover, a 3 year deal is a pretty strong commitment to it!
Kashket also is on a 3 year deal, but I get the feeling that was done when we were expecting signings to be at a premium. - as much as I love the wee fella!
He must be a bit frustrated - that string of starts at the end of last season - then watches an array of attackers come in.
I agree things change once Thompson is available but for now I would personally be very disappointed if Freeman wasn't playing on Saturday.
Agree that Stewart was pretty close to 10/10 last night...and I'd say Gape was even closer!
A good utility player is always useful @malone especially as we know as the season goes on Fred and Smyth are going to be kicked from.pillar to post and always an outside chance Smyth goes back to QPR. It's a long old sesson and I reckon he'll get plenty of minutes and then be well set for next season. As for Scotty I'm not sure where that leaves him as he gets no time to shine as brightly as he did.
You could argue that throughout his time here, Freeman has mainly been played on the wing, and that CM is not his primary position either.
Does Smyth's year loan have a recall then?
I thought you couldn't recall year jobs? Only monthly ones?