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New pyramid leagues announced this week-end

The 4 clubs relegated from the National League (Aldershot, Maidstone, Braintree & Havant & Waterlooville) have all been placed in the National League South for next season.

That means that 2 clubs have had to move sideways from the National League South to National League North to even up the numbers. Those clubs are Gloucester City & Oxford City. Although both clubs will have to travel to the likes of Blyth & Spennymoor, Oxford City will at least have a holiday-time derby v Brackley Town to look forward to.

More locally, Risborough Rangers are moving from the Spartan League to the Hellenic League. Strangest move is Hertfordshire trio Cockfosters, London Colney & Colney Heath being placed in the Essex Senior League. I’m not sure if geography is still taught in schools these days!

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Comments

  • Didn’t this happen to Oxford City a few years ago, moving the other way?

    Have the league given any consideration to having a North/Midlands/South set up instead?

  • Do the clubs that are switched get any financial help from the governing bodies to meet travelling costs and the loss of gate money due to fewer aways attending because of distance.

  • Anyone know what the longest trip Oxford City would have made was, and now will make?

    Are we talking 100s of miles more?
    Or any idea on total distance before and now?

  • I seem to recall clubs do get travel renumeration for long distance games (City were previously placed in the northern section and had to travel to Colwyn Bay and Harrogate). Then again, trips to the likes of Truro (even after their relocation) were no less arduous.

  • From Oxford is a trip to Devon or the South Coast any worse than one to North Yorkshire or Cumbria?

  • It’s probably true a trip to a club in Devon is just as bad, but there’s a few smaller concentration isn’t there?

    One or two trips to the depths of the West Country versus regular trips north of Liverpool and Manchester.

  • Anyone know the criteria used for selecting which clubs go in which league. according to Google maps Braintree is further north than Oxford (and possibly Gloucester but not Evesham where I believe they play)? Perhaps it is done on basis of minimising total mileage (which would seem sensible).

    Apart from minor detail, hard to see a lot of choice to moving clubs around on the geographic boundary in regionalised leagues with promotion/relegation.

    Interesting that I reckon we would be about the fourth/fifth most northern club in NLS this season if we were at that level. Blimey if finances don't improve should worst case worry be a descent to National League North status.....

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  • Braintree in the North ??? are u fuck**** mad

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  • Interesting that four Southern clubs got relegated from the National League. I commented the other day how much stronger the National League North looks on paper than the National League South do perhaps that’s reflected in the quality of the respective promoted clubs

  • edited May 20

    Just to check whether I was indeed completely fuck**** mad (odd to star out the "ing" but not the "fuck" ??)

    Braintree with a coordinate of 51.88 is well to the north of Oxford (at 51.75) and just ahead of Gloucester (at 51.86). Actually both Hemel (51.7532) and St albans (51.7527) are just ahead of Oxford (51.7520) but not ahead of Marston where Oxford City actually play (51.77). Gloucester play at Evesham however which is 52.09.

    So correct order of "northernness" is Gloucester City, Braintree, Oxford City.

    We would be fourth in the new league behind Braintree, Hemel and St Albans but just ahead of Billericay (51.6286 to 51.6279)

    Being interested enough to look this up proves definitively that I am indeed fuck*** mad.

    @bookertease , I think its just a statistical anomaly. Recent years have seen more northern than southern clubs relegated and national league last season was skewed 14 southern clubs, 1 midland 9 north largely as a result.

  • @***london is currently dumbstruck.

  • We’ve missed you @DevC.

  • Thanks @DevC. Yet another of my brilliant theories comes crashing down to earth...

  • PENDANTRY ALERT Truro is in Cornwall, not Devon.

  • Truro play at Torquay these days.

  • Oh no @MindlessDrugHoover .

    Moved back to former ground in January when a deal to build an Aldi on old stadium fell through.
    Didn’t save them from relegation though. Shame really but hard to justify say Concord Rangers travelling 600 mile round trip to play in front of a couple of hundred people.

  • The most bizarre re-organisation of the Non-League pyramid is the fact that there are TWO Southern League Premier Divisions (Midlands & South) each at the same level.

    Whilst this is clear & logical for the administrators it confuses the hell out of people who aren’t devotees of Non-League football. Even the newspapers & Press Association just print one of the leagues.

    It’s a genuine attempt to cut travelling & create a proper pyramid outside the EFL but it has created mind-numbing confusion. In my opinion the Southern League was always superior to the Isthmian League but I think the relative status of both leagues has now been reversed. A shame because I’ve always enjoyed the Southern League but I fear some re-naming of the leagues will be a necessity to end the confusion.

  • “In my opinion the Southern League was always superior to the Isthmian League.”

    How very dare you @A_Worboys. Those dreadful ruffians in the Southern (and Northern) League were paid MONEY to represent their squalid towns.
    Not remotely like us clean-living and idealistic amateurs in that fine Isthmian tradition. (I am reliably informed that the brown paper envelopes just contained directions to the next away ground and tips on the best brands of cigarettes to smoke).

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  • @MindlessDrugHoover Ah ok, thanks for that. I didn't know Dev's bit of knowledge either, but glad to hear they're back home now. That's a hell of an uproot for them to have been playing at Torquay, who were pretty in the poop themselves fairly recently.

  • @DevC said:
    Oh no @MindlessDrugHoover .

    Moved back to former ground in January when a deal to build an Aldi on old stadium fell through.
    Didn’t save them from relegation though. Shame really but hard to justify say Concord Rangers travelling 600 mile round trip to play in front of a couple of hundred people.

    Didn't realise that. Wasn't there a "home" game for Truro where Gulls fans outnumbered "home" fans about 25-1?

  • Worse than that I am afraid Mindless.

    new years day total crowd 2812 - split 2760 "away" fans 52 "home" fans.

    Hard to blame the Truro fans though, it is a 200 round trip. Was a crazy situation. sadly suspect we will not see Truro at national league level again.

  • Grief. Wonder how many of those Truro fans were just Exeter or Plymouth fans out for a laugh?

    Sadly, can't imagine football in Cornwall ever being sustainable beyond minor regional league level. Apart from its isolation etc, it's more of a rugby county.

  • edited May 21

    Not sure its fully true about "rugby country". Truro got decent gates for their level in the NLS and the Cornish are very passionate about anything "representing" their county. The 2007 FA vase final attracted a (then at least) record crowd of 28000 for example. Trouble for all clubs in isolated areas of the country is the cost of travel but worst still the sheer ballsache. Every other week facing long coach journeys to the other end of the country gets a bit unattractive for players not paid or only paid a pittance - especially for those who make the trip only to sit all game on the bench. Easier in the end perhaps to play for say Bodmin Town at a lower level but at least games are fairly local. Add to that demographic pressures - a combination of low wages and high prices means there are relatively few young people living in Cornwall to draw players from. I believe Truro in the end was made up of players from Exeter and Plymouth who trained in Devon and only visited Truro for home games.

  • They could always move those wonderful Pilgrims over the other side of the Tamar Bridge.

  • Or drop them over the edge halfway?

  • @A_Worboys said:
    The most bizarre re-organisation of the Non-League pyramid is the fact that there are TWO Southern League Premier Divisions (Midlands & South) each at the same level.

    Whilst this is clear & logical for the administrators it confuses the hell out of people who aren’t devotees of Non-League football. Even the newspapers & Press Association just print one of the leagues.

    Isn’t the aim also to create a true pyramid all the way down. So 1-2-4-8 etc? I think there’s a step 5 league hosting two division as well. There is more restructuring to come at the end of the 19/20 season too IIRC.

  • @DevC said:
    The 2007 FA vase final attracted a (then at least) record crowd of 28000 for example.

    It's probably worth flagging that this was one of the first games to be played at the new Wembley, so the crowd was swelled by a lot of neutral tick-offs!

  • Actually the FA apparently admitted almost a year later that they had miscounted the attendance for the Vase game and the actual attendance was over 37000. How many from Truro, Totton or neutral is as far as I know unrecorded.

  • Gateshead have been suspended and refused a license to compete in the National League next season.

  • The FA seem to be in de Nile

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