I am really surprised at the reaction of some Sunderland fans. I don’t think Wycombe did anything particularly wrong on Saturday, lots of teams slow the game down when protecting a lead. Guessing whether a player is time wasting or genuinely injured is a futile exercise so no one can be certain that gamesmanship was taking place. I actually thought we played some good football and I don’t understand the accusations that we were too physical. Once you have a reputation in football it’s very difficult to get rid of it.
We dived and we timewasted. You look quite silly if you pretend it didn't happen, or can't see why Sunderland fans are pissed off.
We were also very physical, but Sunderland were no angels in that department, and in a game in which we were heavy underdogs, I don't mind that approach at all.
I disagree that we did it to excess, I didn’t say that it didn’t happen at all. Sunderland fans were upset because their team didn’t play well so the first resort of biased supporters when things go wrong is to blame the other team or the referee.
So hang on, @Last_Quarter , when their men were on the floor we were being "very physical", yet when they bashed our lads, we "dived and we time wasted"
There were certainly more actual injuries than normal but I thought our performance was committed and combative but nowhere near excessively so. I was very proud of the commitment and, often, the quality of our play. I reckon we won more headers on Saturday than in all the matches since Christmas combined. Fair bossed the midfield overall, with Blooms and Gape leading the way.
@glasshalffull If you agree that it happened, then I think you've probably answered your own point about why Sunderland fans are so upset about it.
@Malone I don't really understand - I literally said in my post that Sunderland were as physical as we were. Some of our injuries were probably genuine, some of them weren't (in my opinion). I can't speak for Sunderland. I'm not really sure what there is to disagree with, but if your blue-tinted glasses are strong enough...
And before I get plastered with the 'negative' banner- I've already said elsewhere how well we played on Saturday. On the whole, it was a performance to be proud of. But equally, I've grown a bit sick of our dark arts, and the reputation they've earned us.
The keeper definitely needs to ease it down a bit. How he carried on all game after those shenanigans I don't know. Even our bench thought he was definitely coming off, with Yves getting kitted up.
A lot of the rest I don't see us as being that bad. O Nien was going down a few times for them, but then he was getting clattered. I still think if it was really that obvious then the refs would start dishing cards.
I find with rocky it's a bit embarrassing on occasion especially in games where we should be having a good go at weaker opposition but Sunderland hardly had a shot on goal and we could have had three so by the same token I think we played very well and it was an exciting game.
I'm with @glasshalffull on this one. No idea what they were all weeping about. Was a good physical contest and I don't think we were particularly bad on the dark arts front on Saturday. They had players rolling around as if shot who recovered pretty quickly.
I think the online riling from Newcastle fans about their exuberant celebrations in drawing with a very small club may have had something to do with the sour reaction.
Apparently in the premier league the refs were biased against the little clubs but now in L1 they are against the big clubs. Only making the playoffs in the third tier should be their main worry but they are excited about Wembley.
It never ceases to amaze me how football fans bemoan the way the game has lost its physicality and is 'becoming a non-contact sport' only to turn into screaming, gibbering wrecks when someone actually puts a tackle in on one of their players.
I don’t have the match stats to hand but from memory there wasn’t much difference between the teams in the number of fouls committed and the longest injury breaks were for treatment to Sunderland players.
@uncle_t yes that looked clear to me and whether or not it merited the dead fly and the stoppage it was a pretty stupid thing for the mackems player to do given the moaning about time-wasting.
@jonny_king thats the way I feel when fans have been chanting insults and obscenities for 90 minutes then grasp their pearls and swoon if a player gives them the finger.
Got into a Twitter debate with a Sunderland fan on Sunday. According to him they have won half the appeals on their red cards, not including Honeyman. As such, this PROVES that the referees are conspiring to keep The Black Cats down in L1. YCMIU!
Can I add that Sunderland were not a pretty ordinary looking side, please give credit to our players, particularly Blooms, Gape and Bean, whose battling performances made them look that way.
I love the way they're trying to depict Honeyman as some sort of mild natured lovely little chap who was clearly concussed, hence acting out of character.
It's pretty special to set a 30man brawl off, pretty special indeed.
I dare say we have no chance of getting Tyson's ban rescinded. Not because there's any evidence he did anything, but simply because there's no clear evidence he didn't! The opposite of how all law courts work!
And quite rightly so that criminal cases require a higher standard of proof (enough to show that something is beyond reasonable doubt) as it is worse to convict an innocent than to let a guilty party go free.
It is entirely sensible that other judgements are made on a different basis. In this case, if the referee thought at the time that a red card is required, it is fair that video evidence should show conclusively that they were wrong for the decision to be overturned.
@EwanHoosaami said:
Got into a Twitter debate with a Sunderland fan on Sunday. According to him they have won half the appeals on their red cards, not including Honeyman. As such, this PROVES that the referees are conspiring to keep The Black Cats down in L1. YCMIU!
Can I add that Sunderland were not a pretty ordinary looking side, please give credit to our players, particularly Blooms, Gape and Bean, whose battling performances made them look that way.
It's not a particularly deep running conspiracy if the devious plans get overturned on appeal by the very same body allegedly running said conspiracy is it.
The official capacity, as confirmed by Michael Davies, is 9448. Not every match will have that capacity as some seats are taken out of use for various reasons. For Sunderland, the capacity was less than 9000.
Twitter is a great amplifier of poorly thought through arguments, whilst shouting from the terrace I'm happy to shout for every decision as if its us that are appealing to the ref, we know how bad they generally are so it might help, but you also have the knowing looks and quiet conversations with the people around you when we get given a decision that we didn't deserve and frustration when we are poor.
Its a bit too easy now to sit on twitter, either after a game, or from a distance if you support a club from afar but don't ever go, and be determined to argue that every challenge on one of your players must be a foul , if not an assault, and every time one of thier players goes down they must be diving and timewasting. Then you get the phony rivalries and every other team is either tinpot and useless or cheats, or all 3.
Talking with opposition fans nearly always gets a better quality of discussion.
@Steve_Peart what on earth reduced the capacity by 450 or more?
I can understand the occasional fat oaf of a fan ruining a seat, or a pigeon destroying one after too much cheesy bread, but 450?
Bearing in mind there wasn't any segregation needed for Sunderland?
@StrongestTeam agree...there have been times when you think...ooops...we got away with that one and also 'how was that offside...' but I tend to think a result is a result and still going on about it more than one hour after a game is pointless. I assume most fans feel the same...and it's only a small minority who hold a grudge/go on someone else's forum/decide to send death threats.
@Chris, i remember now someone on the fb page was saying they felt a bit intimidated in that end, surrounded by some of their angry fans.
So maybe there was some sort of small segregation in the end.
I think one block of seats in the Beechdean Stand, next to the directors and guests section, had Wycombe supporters in it. They were in close proximity to the Sunderland fans and I have seen comments from at least one person who indicated that they were sitting in that location and complained about some of the Sunderland fans banging on the home dugout and dishing out abuse.
Comments
I am really surprised at the reaction of some Sunderland fans. I don’t think Wycombe did anything particularly wrong on Saturday, lots of teams slow the game down when protecting a lead. Guessing whether a player is time wasting or genuinely injured is a futile exercise so no one can be certain that gamesmanship was taking place. I actually thought we played some good football and I don’t understand the accusations that we were too physical. Once you have a reputation in football it’s very difficult to get rid of it.
We dived and we timewasted. You look quite silly if you pretend it didn't happen, or can't see why Sunderland fans are pissed off.
We were also very physical, but Sunderland were no angels in that department, and in a game in which we were heavy underdogs, I don't mind that approach at all.
I disagree that we did it to excess, I didn’t say that it didn’t happen at all. Sunderland fans were upset because their team didn’t play well so the first resort of biased supporters when things go wrong is to blame the other team or the referee.
So hang on, @Last_Quarter , when their men were on the floor we were being "very physical", yet when they bashed our lads, we "dived and we time wasted"
Got it
There were certainly more actual injuries than normal but I thought our performance was committed and combative but nowhere near excessively so. I was very proud of the commitment and, often, the quality of our play. I reckon we won more headers on Saturday than in all the matches since Christmas combined. Fair bossed the midfield overall, with Blooms and Gape leading the way.
@glasshalffull If you agree that it happened, then I think you've probably answered your own point about why Sunderland fans are so upset about it.
@Malone I don't really understand - I literally said in my post that Sunderland were as physical as we were. Some of our injuries were probably genuine, some of them weren't (in my opinion). I can't speak for Sunderland. I'm not really sure what there is to disagree with, but if your blue-tinted glasses are strong enough...
And before I get plastered with the 'negative' banner- I've already said elsewhere how well we played on Saturday. On the whole, it was a performance to be proud of. But equally, I've grown a bit sick of our dark arts, and the reputation they've earned us.
The keeper definitely needs to ease it down a bit. How he carried on all game after those shenanigans I don't know. Even our bench thought he was definitely coming off, with Yves getting kitted up.
A lot of the rest I don't see us as being that bad. O Nien was going down a few times for them, but then he was getting clattered. I still think if it was really that obvious then the refs would start dishing cards.
I find with rocky it's a bit embarrassing on occasion especially in games where we should be having a good go at weaker opposition but Sunderland hardly had a shot on goal and we could have had three so by the same token I think we played very well and it was an exciting game.
I'm with @glasshalffull on this one. No idea what they were all weeping about. Was a good physical contest and I don't think we were particularly bad on the dark arts front on Saturday. They had players rolling around as if shot who recovered pretty quickly.
I think the online riling from Newcastle fans about their exuberant celebrations in drawing with a very small club may have had something to do with the sour reaction.
Apparently in the premier league the refs were biased against the little clubs but now in L1 they are against the big clubs. Only making the playoffs in the third tier should be their main worry but they are excited about Wembley.
It never ceases to amaze me how football fans bemoan the way the game has lost its physicality and is 'becoming a non-contact sport' only to turn into screaming, gibbering wrecks when someone actually puts a tackle in on one of their players.
I don’t have the match stats to hand but from memory there wasn’t much difference between the teams in the number of fouls committed and the longest injury breaks were for treatment to Sunderland players.
The Goal Cam video clearly shows a Sunderland player putting the boot in on Ryan Allsop after he saved and claimed the ball.
@glasshalffull The foul stats were: WW (45% possession) 15 - 12 Sunderland (55% possession)
@uncle_t yes that looked clear to me and whether or not it merited the dead fly and the stoppage it was a pretty stupid thing for the mackems player to do given the moaning about time-wasting.
@jonny_king thats the way I feel when fans have been chanting insults and obscenities for 90 minutes then grasp their pearls and swoon if a player gives them the finger.
Got into a Twitter debate with a Sunderland fan on Sunday. According to him they have won half the appeals on their red cards, not including Honeyman. As such, this PROVES that the referees are conspiring to keep The Black Cats down in L1. YCMIU!
Can I add that Sunderland were not a pretty ordinary looking side, please give credit to our players, particularly Blooms, Gape and Bean, whose battling performances made them look that way.
I love the way they're trying to depict Honeyman as some sort of mild natured lovely little chap who was clearly concussed, hence acting out of character.
It's pretty special to set a 30man brawl off, pretty special indeed.
I dare say we have no chance of getting Tyson's ban rescinded. Not because there's any evidence he did anything, but simply because there's no clear evidence he didn't! The opposite of how all law courts work!
And quite rightly so that criminal cases require a higher standard of proof (enough to show that something is beyond reasonable doubt) as it is worse to convict an innocent than to let a guilty party go free.
It is entirely sensible that other judgements are made on a different basis. In this case, if the referee thought at the time that a red card is required, it is fair that video evidence should show conclusively that they were wrong for the decision to be overturned.
Much as I like tyson, hes not been setting the world on fire recently so Paris and Freeman are excellent options while he sits out the ban.
It's not a particularly deep running conspiracy if the devious plans get overturned on appeal by the very same body allegedly running said conspiracy is it.
Bizarre!
The official capacity, as confirmed by Michael Davies, is 9448. Not every match will have that capacity as some seats are taken out of use for various reasons. For Sunderland, the capacity was less than 9000.
Twitter is a great amplifier of poorly thought through arguments, whilst shouting from the terrace I'm happy to shout for every decision as if its us that are appealing to the ref, we know how bad they generally are so it might help, but you also have the knowing looks and quiet conversations with the people around you when we get given a decision that we didn't deserve and frustration when we are poor.
Its a bit too easy now to sit on twitter, either after a game, or from a distance if you support a club from afar but don't ever go, and be determined to argue that every challenge on one of your players must be a foul , if not an assault, and every time one of thier players goes down they must be diving and timewasting. Then you get the phony rivalries and every other team is either tinpot and useless or cheats, or all 3.
Talking with opposition fans nearly always gets a better quality of discussion.
Great post @StrongestTeam. People rarely act like keyboard warriors face to face!
@Steve_Peart what on earth reduced the capacity by 450 or more?
I can understand the occasional fat oaf of a fan ruining a seat, or a pigeon destroying one after too much cheesy bread, but 450?
Bearing in mind there wasn't any segregation needed for Sunderland?
@StrongestTeam agree...there have been times when you think...ooops...we got away with that one and also 'how was that offside...' but I tend to think a result is a result and still going on about it more than one hour after a game is pointless. I assume most fans feel the same...and it's only a small minority who hold a grudge/go on someone else's forum/decide to send death threats.
@malone It could be something to do with having away fans in what are normally home areas? It seems a lot to lose though.
@Chris, i remember now someone on the fb page was saying they felt a bit intimidated in that end, surrounded by some of their angry fans.
So maybe there was some sort of small segregation in the end.
Anyone know?
I think one block of seats in the Beechdean Stand, next to the directors and guests section, had Wycombe supporters in it. They were in close proximity to the Sunderland fans and I have seen comments from at least one person who indicated that they were sitting in that location and complained about some of the Sunderland fans banging on the home dugout and dishing out abuse.
I see we were fined £7250 and Sunderland £6000 for the fracas.