I’ve returned after one of those involuntary armchair sleeps that inevitably follow a very late night and a very early morning desperately trying to make contact with Sky to cancel a visit by one of their engineers whose arrival, even at 1.30 this morning, had not been fine-tuned more than “between 8am and 5pm”. Age may also be a factor.
I love nearly everything @Wendoverman writes and his posts on this topic have been as amusing as any but I must return to my post of 1.20 pm and @DevC’s comment. I was not suggesting for one moment that the annual loss could be offset by a reduction in squad size. Simply that by reducing it by two or three of the more highly paid members and also increasing the number of young players who were identified, like several before them, as having potential (not least in the transfer market) significant inroads could be made into that half a million figure. It will take something like that because, for all the talk (by both sets of bidders) of boosting sponsorship, letting out meeting rooms, putting more bums on seats etc, those sources of revenue are notoriously difficult to grow.
@micra you are right there are many options for cost-cutting including the player wheeler dealing that Gareth and Dobbo have pulled off over the past few seasons.
Sometimes I worry that, should money become available, they might not know what to do with it! I too am skeptical that without that and on the field success, there is that much room for the boosting of off the field activities by our glorious soon to be owner/owners/stake holders to save our sorry arses. Sometimes Dev's apolyptic vision and his slightly patronising tone of '...if I am wrong please be so kind as to prove that to me with the relevant facts and figures..' gets my goat. My friend Liam wants to me provide his address...he says he has certain skills.
@micra yeah yeah that'll be it. I'll put it down to the fact I'm supposed to be working.
Liam? Nah....Irish fella. He told me he's wondering around the south west with a cosh looking for a fight.
@Wendoverman , what I am saying is “if you think I am wrong, please explain why you have concluded something else”. then we can discuss it. Sometimes we might agree at the end that you were right, sometimes that I was right and sometimes we will agree to disagree. It’s exactly what we would do in real life and I suspect we would do so without personal abuse. Unless of course you are my wife, in which case let’s just agree now that you are and always will be right on every occasion.
Micra, you are of course correct that if you replace a highly paid player with a cheaper one and get the same results on the pitch, then the loss will be lower. That’s quite a presumption though. If you want to close a £500k loss by replacing £75k players with £25k ones, that’s ten experienced pros you have lost. Could relegation really then be avoided? Even if you only close half the gap, that’s a massive hit to an already low budget squad. GA has performed miracles with what he has, but if you tie more limbs behind his back, even his miracles may not be enough.
And then if we did relegated, we would be back in lg2 with reduced income. Last season with a low budget compared with our competitors, we lost over £500k in league 2. So do we get rid of more highly paid players and get more kids? If so could even GA keep us in the league?
@DevC said:
I am genuinely struggling to understand what point you are trying to make, @peterparrotface
Are you trying to argue that there isn't a massive difference in TV money between Lg1 and lg2 and lg2 and Conference?
Or that we didn't have one of the lowest budgets in Lg2 last year and in recent seasons?
Or that we didn't lose £500k plus in Lg2 (excluding transfers and cup one-offs) every year?
Or that if we did cut £500k from what was already one of the lowest budgets in Lg2, that wouldn't make avoiding relegating to the national league very difficult?
Or that trying to break even in the national league (with no tv money of note) would not make it very difficult to survive in that league too?
If you can just clarify where we disagree and why, perhaps we can discuss rationally.
The budget one. I would like to see your evidence of the size of this clubs and other clubs budgets in League 2. You are very certain so I assume you have some evidence and I would be interested to see it.
See endless comments from various trust communications and from the manager. Do you not believe them? Do you think we were outspending loads of teams by hundreds of thousands of pounds?
I understand they are given information by the league as to how they stand comparatively, @wformation.
The information has been given repeatedly, @peterparrotface. If those facts do not suit your agenda, that’s fine.
If it’s relevant to your decision of how to vote, perhaps you should ask the Trust at the next meeting.
If I am right and we had a bottom six budget in lg2, do you think we could cut it by even £250k and still have a strong chance of avoiding relegation to the conference?
The Accrington chairman said that their budget was joint lowest with Wycombe in League One. He said that on the BBC so it must be true. I have not demanded his figures though so there is no way to check. I think what people are saying is for a raggedy arsed club with no money we've done alright for the last two seasons and therefore if we delay the decision or reject whichever bid the Dark Lord Stroud and his minions (power group) inflict upon us an immediate descent to the Bradley Walsh Division South is not necessarily a given. A possibility most certainly...but not inevitable.
The trust board have said so many times. peter. But if it is relevant to your vote,
ask them again. I am sure they will be happy to confirm.
Wendover, we have done remarkably well given our budgets for several seasons - not just the last two. But of course that was when we had a low budget AND we’re losing £500k per year funded by borrowing and transfer receipts. Borrowing has run out now. Are you confident we could survive even after taking out £500k from the playing budget (or sell a million more bags of crisps).
@DevC - You have omitted to take into account we were paying off a substantial sum to Sharky for a few years, but still managed to just about keep our heads above water. Since we cleared that debt, why have we suddenly been losing around £500k per year?
If I believed we could stay at least in lg2, I would very happily stay fan owned.
I can’t see how that is possible.
Hayes was paid from transfer revenue (mostly Ibe) and new borrowings. I think I am right in saying we have lost at least £500k, excluding transfers, every year since trust ownership.
Another day, another few fans who spend plenty of their hard owned cash supporting Wycombe being lectured on the state of the club's finances by a man who contributes not a single penny
Damn. I saw 20 odd new comments and thought something interesting might be going on. Sadly it was just more @DevC straw-man trolling. It’s really starting to drag this forum down, which I’m starting to think might be his actual motive.
Comments
I’ve returned after one of those involuntary armchair sleeps that inevitably follow a very late night and a very early morning desperately trying to make contact with Sky to cancel a visit by one of their engineers whose arrival, even at 1.30 this morning, had not been fine-tuned more than “between 8am and 5pm”. Age may also be a factor.
I love nearly everything @Wendoverman writes and his posts on this topic have been as amusing as any but I must return to my post of 1.20 pm and @DevC’s comment. I was not suggesting for one moment that the annual loss could be offset by a reduction in squad size. Simply that by reducing it by two or three of the more highly paid members and also increasing the number of young players who were identified, like several before them, as having potential (not least in the transfer market) significant inroads could be made into that half a million figure. It will take something like that because, for all the talk (by both sets of bidders) of boosting sponsorship, letting out meeting rooms, putting more bums on seats etc, those sources of revenue are notoriously difficult to grow.
Or selling more crisps @micra.
Or selling more crisps. Notoriously difficult when none are stocked.
@micra you are right there are many options for cost-cutting including the player wheeler dealing that Gareth and Dobbo have pulled off over the past few seasons.
Sometimes I worry that, should money become available, they might not know what to do with it! I too am skeptical that without that and on the field success, there is that much room for the boosting of off the field activities by our glorious soon to be owner/owners/stake holders to save our sorry arses. Sometimes Dev's apolyptic vision and his slightly patronising tone of '...if I am wrong please be so kind as to prove that to me with the relevant facts and figures..' gets my goat. My friend Liam wants to me provide his address...he says he has certain skills.
That wouldn’t be the redoubtable Mr Gallagher I assume.
Apocalyptic?
@micra yeah yeah that'll be it. I'll put it down to the fact I'm supposed to be working.
Liam? Nah....Irish fella. He told me he's wondering around the south west with a cosh looking for a fight.
You must mean Liam Fox?
@Wendoverman , what I am saying is “if you think I am wrong, please explain why you have concluded something else”. then we can discuss it. Sometimes we might agree at the end that you were right, sometimes that I was right and sometimes we will agree to disagree. It’s exactly what we would do in real life and I suspect we would do so without personal abuse. Unless of course you are my wife, in which case let’s just agree now that you are and always will be right on every occasion.
Micra, you are of course correct that if you replace a highly paid player with a cheaper one and get the same results on the pitch, then the loss will be lower. That’s quite a presumption though. If you want to close a £500k loss by replacing £75k players with £25k ones, that’s ten experienced pros you have lost. Could relegation really then be avoided? Even if you only close half the gap, that’s a massive hit to an already low budget squad. GA has performed miracles with what he has, but if you tie more limbs behind his back, even his miracles may not be enough.
And then if we did relegated, we would be back in lg2 with reduced income. Last season with a low budget compared with our competitors, we lost over £500k in league 2. So do we get rid of more highly paid players and get more kids? If so could even GA keep us in the league?
The budget one. I would like to see your evidence of the size of this clubs and other clubs budgets in League 2. You are very certain so I assume you have some evidence and I would be interested to see it.
We have been repeatedly told that we had a budget in the bottom six - probably the bottom two. Do you think that was a lie?
The bottom 2 of League 2? Can you send me a link or something?
See endless comments from various trust communications and from the manager. Do you not believe them? Do you think we were outspending loads of teams by hundreds of thousands of pounds?
If you consider a large playing budget is the prime requirement for success, can you explain Notts County's current league position?
Why are you asking me that? I just asked for a link to an article that states we had the second lowest budget in League 2.
If you don't have one no worries Dev. I haven't read endless comments from the Trust on this but you obviously have.
It might not have been a lie, just a mistaken guess.
I understand they are given information by the league as to how they stand comparatively, @wformation.
The information has been given repeatedly, @peterparrotface. If those facts do not suit your agenda, that’s fine.
If it’s relevant to your decision of how to vote, perhaps you should ask the Trust at the next meeting.
If I am right and we had a bottom six budget in lg2, do you think we could cut it by even £250k and still have a strong chance of avoiding relegation to the conference?
@DevC You say you understand, is that evidence or is it guess work on your part?
Where has it been given? Only verbally? I don't have an agenda. I just asked you for the evidence you have based your assertion on.
I can't answer your question as I don't have any knowledge of League 1 club budgets like you do. So 250k or 10k means nothing without that knowledge.
That’s what i’ve Been told. But as I’ve never actually seen the document, I can only understand it to be true.
Are you another who doesn’t believe we had a bottom six budget last season?
I genuinely don't know Dev. Who told You?
The Accrington chairman said that their budget was joint lowest with Wycombe in League One. He said that on the BBC so it must be true. I have not demanded his figures though so there is no way to check. I think what people are saying is for a raggedy arsed club with no money we've done alright for the last two seasons and therefore if we delay the decision or reject whichever bid the Dark Lord Stroud and his minions (power group) inflict upon us an immediate descent to the Bradley Walsh Division South is not necessarily a given. A possibility most certainly...but not inevitable.
The trust board have said so many times. peter. But if it is relevant to your vote,
ask them again. I am sure they will be happy to confirm.
Wendover, we have done remarkably well given our budgets for several seasons - not just the last two. But of course that was when we had a low budget AND we’re losing £500k per year funded by borrowing and transfer receipts. Borrowing has run out now. Are you confident we could survive even after taking out £500k from the playing budget (or sell a million more bags of crisps).
The board said it... so it must be true haha
Dev you are absolutely determined that we will end up in the National south
@DevC - You have omitted to take into account we were paying off a substantial sum to Sharky for a few years, but still managed to just about keep our heads above water. Since we cleared that debt, why have we suddenly been losing around £500k per year?
On the contrary, I’m determined we will not.
If I believed we could stay at least in lg2, I would very happily stay fan owned.
I can’t see how that is possible.
Hayes was paid from transfer revenue (mostly Ibe) and new borrowings. I think I am right in saying we have lost at least £500k, excluding transfers, every year since trust ownership.
I reckon the receipts from the two playoff games and then the money from Wembley will help! ;-)
A brief search throws up this article. Whilst not conducive proof it does suggest what @DevC is saying.
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2018/april/andrew-agents-fees-report-reflects-how-we-operate/
Another day, another few fans who spend plenty of their hard owned cash supporting Wycombe being lectured on the state of the club's finances by a man who contributes not a single penny
Damn. I saw 20 odd new comments and thought something interesting might be going on. Sadly it was just more @DevC straw-man trolling. It’s really starting to drag this forum down, which I’m starting to think might be his actual motive.