The second question was kind of covered off but the first one seemed a valud point worthy of coverage. The presentation did say they asked 'the guys' rather than them approaching.
The real million dollar question will be ?
Will Mr Shrouds car manage to get through the snow to the place that he 'doesnt' work at today !! And have they cleared the Beechdean car park.
@ChasHarps said:
And have they cleared the Beechdean car park.
The club/trust put out an urgent appeal for help a couple of days ago. "They" are probably the four volunteers that turned up yesterday for some hours to clear and salt in preparation for the predicted snow.? It's still snowing so not sure what the eventual plan will be, however there will certainly eventually be a need for a considerably larger number of volunteers and helpers to clear and prepare for the game tomorrow.
All this discussion and worry about us being fan owned or selling a majority stake and when push comes to shove, only four fans respond. No wonder some Plymouth supporters laugh and throw insults. I know that folk will have been working but only four?
BTW the car park was half covered by cars from the staff of a large waste company, that were utilizing the conference facilities and bringing in income.?
Where did the club place their "urgent appeal"? I didn't notice it and I am on the gasroom, twitter and ifollow. If the club need help tomorrow I am up for it as will be my son.
@EwanHoosaami, I've just looked and it was a circulated email to me on Monday titled "URGENT REQUEST from WWFC". Naturally I didn't look further but this circulation was to the PALS volunteers. It was a club request from Michael Davies so I would have assumed a wider circulation. They'll need to broaden their request for tomorrow then if they expect a small army to assist!
Came out on twitter a short while ago. I'm going down in an hour or so and will probably go again in the morning if needed. Doubt if my lads match will be on in the morning?
Keeping the gatecrash going.........just back home and the large number of volunteers has done a good job. About 1/4 to 1/3rd of the car park is totally clear and all other areas have had the white lines and numbers uncovered/salted. Thawing pretty quickly but even if there is snow in your slot you should still be able to park on top of it in your bay. Upper car park is of course still covered but MAY be usable by 4x4 and possibly some FWD if thaw continues and no more snow. No point in turning it into an unusable mud bath though and ruining it for a few months. Even took Mrs ValleyWanderer with me and she doesn't even have a ST!! From 9am tomorrow for the walkway's and stands (bring snow shovels/brooms). I wasn't sure of your space @micra but hope we've sorted it for you!
On the Wycombe Wanderers Trust website dated 21st January, members were told the following, "later this week we will be able to share details of Bill and Jim's proposal which will be sent directly to legacy members, giving them the chance to consider various elements of the deal in advance of the meeting."
Has this post now been taken down as I can't find it?
There is a posting on Jan. 11 and Jan. 25 but I can't find the one dated Jan 21st which I wrote down verbatim. Can anybody else find it?
Almost a fortnight later and nothing, if the U.S. Private Equity bid is so incredible and will blow everybody else's out of the water then why don't they show us?
Either they are using Mr. Harman's proposal to copy the ideas, pull apart the commercial logic and improve theirs or it isn't quite as amazing as the board would have us believe.
Maybe the Private Equity Investors deal just suits the creditors' better than the one from Mr. Harman?
Given the creditors are the ones driving the deal, they have had 2 years to agree terms with the U.S. Private Equity Investors while we, the members, have allowed ourselves to be kept in the dark by those who are paid by the creditors'.
Our Chairmen spoke about getting "back to a level playing field" why did we move away from one in the first place and under whose authority, an elected one or an unelected one?
Treat both parties in the same manner and let's discuss both proposals openly at the same time without having the future of our club determined by the very management team that has caused this calamity in the first place.
I have no faith in their judgement to make the right decision given the way they have a) handled the charge, b) the communication and c) the bidding process.
The fact that four member of the trust board 'broke ranks' and approached Mr Harman for him to consider putting a bid in at this late stage, makes you think all is not what it seems with The U.S. bid ??
Do we know Bill and Jim are not bidding on behalf of others ???
Do they intend to 'flip or spin' the club pretty quickly after purchase ??
I don't believe the proposal will now be shared with us on the basis that the Trust might not endorse it. They of course might and I still believe they will given they have borrowed £500,000 for the USA bidders and I personally think they are backed into a moral corner on this. Back a minority bid from a local businessman and crap on the people that kindly loaned you £500k or dismiss the minority bid on the basis its not as good as the USA bid and keep them happy. Crucially they don't have to share the losing bidders proposal with the trust members merely set out their thinking but we of course will not be able to judge for ourselves. So don't hold your breath @NiceCarrots I don't think you will see the USA proposal anytime soon or not least until they have made a decision on who they are backing.
@NiceCarrots it really isn't that surprising though is it?
Why would the American Investors want their bid be made public knowledge before A Harman has submitted his bid?
I'm sorry, but you are just a wind up merchant. It's time that A Harman actually made a bid that the board can evaluate against the American bid.
At a little bit of a tangent to this thread, I was in the Vere suite on Saturday pre KO. At the fizzy bar buying a pint for my son, I was engaged in conversation by a fan who was incredibly animated that we should all vote the US bid through, my comment was how can I make an opinion on a bid I have seen no detail on. "anyone who knows anything about business would vote for Bill & Jim". The more I tried to explain that I could not make a view on a bid I haven't seen the more irate he got. I am genuinely getting slinters in my arse sitting on the fence waiting for all the information. My main concern is that we get to the end of the season with no decision. The club needs time to plan for next season, the earlier the better, it is going to be a real challenge "kicking on" after this season has been so successful (so far anyway)
The plan I took from the meeting is that Andy Harman has been invited to present his proposal to the Trust Board on 21 Feb. That date had still to be agreed by AH. Then the Trust Board will decide on their preferred bid, which will be presented to Legacy Members and voted on. Only the preferred bid will be revealed to members.
Although not stated at the meeting, I am assuming that the Americans' proposal is fixed and cannot be changed, and that neither party will have sight of, or knowledge of, the details of the other party's detailed proposal, notwithstanding that AH has publicly revealed some details of his proposal. So if the Americans' bid is preferred, it will still be for a majority stake.
@NiceCarrots said:
On the Wycombe Wanderers Trust website dated 21st January, members were told the following, "later this week we will be able to share details of Bill and Jim's proposal which will be sent directly to legacy members, giving them the chance to consider various elements of the deal in advance of the meeting."
Has this post now been taken down as I can't find it?
There is a posting on Jan. 11 and Jan. 25 but I can't find the one dated Jan 21st which I wrote down verbatim. Can anybody else find it?
Almost a fortnight later and nothing, if the U.S. Private Equity bid is so incredible and will blow everybody else's out of the water then why don't they show us?
Either they are using Mr. Harman's proposal to copy the ideas, pull apart the commercial logic and improve theirs or it isn't quite as amazing as the board would have us believe.
Maybe the Private Equity Investors deal just suits the creditors' better than the one from Mr. Harman?
Given the creditors are the ones driving the deal, they have had 2 years to agree terms with the U.S. Private Equity Investors while we, the members, have allowed ourselves to be kept in the dark by those who are paid by the creditors'.
Our Chairmen spoke about getting "back to a level playing field" why did we move away from one in the first place and under whose authority, an elected one or an unelected one?
Treat both parties in the same manner and let's discuss both proposals openly at the same time without having the future of our club determined by the very management team that has caused this calamity in the first place.
I have no faith in their judgement to make the right decision given the way they have a) handled the charge, b) the communication and c) the bidding process.
There are so many unfounded assumptions and so much flawed reasoning in this post that I agree with @twizz, at least in general terms if not necessarily his precise diagnosis. This sort of post is hugely unhelpful.
Why would the US deal be fixed in place? Whilst I would have expected to see the details long before the late cancellation isn't it wise to park it until Harman bids and then negotiate further.
This has to be a stronger position for the club.
I am wondering why @NiceCarrots has chosen today to restart the debate with something that isn't really news. Why rattle the cage at this point other than to restoke the fire lit under Stroud and the board.
@NiceCarrots Like others I am balancing on the fence...but also like others I can see the logic of the US bidders standing back to let the Trust invite and assess the new bid that some people equally seem to think is the perfect solution without having seen it!. It makes perfect sense for the yanks to stand back amidst all the clamour and I, to be fair, commend them for it. Once it was they are not allowing Andy Harman's bid....now it is: 'ooo they pulled out so they can steal Andy's ideas' However accurate past posts on insider shenannigans have been I am starting find such hair on fire stuff insulting myself.
@Wendoverman said: @NiceCarrots Like others I am balancing on the fence...but also like others I can see the logic of the US bidders standing back to let the Trust invite and assess the new bid that some people equally seem to think is the perfect solution without having seen it
But at least weve seen the outline from the Harman bid. (3 mil over 5 years, 2 to the club and 1 to the academy) Still absolutely bugger all from the americans.
IMHO we had about as much detail from the Americans outlined to the Trust members in the original introduction meeting as we now have from A Harman.
Don't forget, though, that the trust Board have seen more details from the Americans since then - actual a formal bid, although that may now be being revised - but still nothing formal from A Harman. In what world then do we have more information from A Harman than the Americans?
I'm neither for one bid or the other, I might not favour either bid in fact.
Comments
The second question was kind of covered off but the first one seemed a valud point worthy of coverage. The presentation did say they asked 'the guys' rather than them approaching.
The real million dollar question will be ?
Will Mr Shrouds car manage to get through the snow to the place that he 'doesnt' work at today !! And have they cleared the Beechdean car park.
One imagines an ice cream factory thriving in the snow.
The club/trust put out an urgent appeal for help a couple of days ago. "They" are probably the four volunteers that turned up yesterday for some hours to clear and salt in preparation for the predicted snow.? It's still snowing so not sure what the eventual plan will be, however there will certainly eventually be a need for a considerably larger number of volunteers and helpers to clear and prepare for the game tomorrow.
All this discussion and worry about us being fan owned or selling a majority stake and when push comes to shove, only four fans respond. No wonder some Plymouth supporters laugh and throw insults. I know that folk will have been working but only four?
BTW the car park was half covered by cars from the staff of a large waste company, that were utilizing the conference facilities and bringing in income.?
Where did the club place their "urgent appeal"? I didn't notice it and I am on the gasroom, twitter and ifollow. If the club need help tomorrow I am up for it as will be my son.
@EwanHoosaami, I've just looked and it was a circulated email to me on Monday titled "URGENT REQUEST from WWFC". Naturally I didn't look further but this circulation was to the PALS volunteers. It was a club request from Michael Davies so I would have assumed a wider circulation. They'll need to broaden their request for tomorrow then if they expect a small army to assist!
Came out on twitter a short while ago. I'm going down in an hour or so and will probably go again in the morning if needed. Doubt if my lads match will be on in the morning?
Communication is not the club's strong point. Nothing so far on PALS or web.
According to Michael Davis, they're asking for help with the car park. On my way.
Could you please clear me a space in the Roofline car park while you’re there @ValleyWanderer.
How did we gatecrash this thread?
I blame Chas Harps.
Keeping the gatecrash going.........just back home and the large number of volunteers has done a good job. About 1/4 to 1/3rd of the car park is totally clear and all other areas have had the white lines and numbers uncovered/salted. Thawing pretty quickly but even if there is snow in your slot you should still be able to park on top of it in your bay. Upper car park is of course still covered but MAY be usable by 4x4 and possibly some FWD if thaw continues and no more snow. No point in turning it into an unusable mud bath though and ruining it for a few months. Even took Mrs ValleyWanderer with me and she doesn't even have a ST!! From 9am tomorrow for the walkway's and stands (bring snow shovels/brooms). I wasn't sure of your space @micra but hope we've sorted it for you!
On the Wycombe Wanderers Trust website dated 21st January, members were told the following, "later this week we will be able to share details of Bill and Jim's proposal which will be sent directly to legacy members, giving them the chance to consider various elements of the deal in advance of the meeting."
Has this post now been taken down as I can't find it?
There is a posting on Jan. 11 and Jan. 25 but I can't find the one dated Jan 21st which I wrote down verbatim. Can anybody else find it?
Almost a fortnight later and nothing, if the U.S. Private Equity bid is so incredible and will blow everybody else's out of the water then why don't they show us?
Either they are using Mr. Harman's proposal to copy the ideas, pull apart the commercial logic and improve theirs or it isn't quite as amazing as the board would have us believe.
Maybe the Private Equity Investors deal just suits the creditors' better than the one from Mr. Harman?
Given the creditors are the ones driving the deal, they have had 2 years to agree terms with the U.S. Private Equity Investors while we, the members, have allowed ourselves to be kept in the dark by those who are paid by the creditors'.
Our Chairmen spoke about getting "back to a level playing field" why did we move away from one in the first place and under whose authority, an elected one or an unelected one?
Treat both parties in the same manner and let's discuss both proposals openly at the same time without having the future of our club determined by the very management team that has caused this calamity in the first place.
I have no faith in their judgement to make the right decision given the way they have a) handled the charge, b) the communication and c) the bidding process.
The fact that four member of the trust board 'broke ranks' and approached Mr Harman for him to consider putting a bid in at this late stage, makes you think all is not what it seems with The U.S. bid ??
Do we know Bill and Jim are not bidding on behalf of others ???
Do they intend to 'flip or spin' the club pretty quickly after purchase ??
I don't believe the proposal will now be shared with us on the basis that the Trust might not endorse it. They of course might and I still believe they will given they have borrowed £500,000 for the USA bidders and I personally think they are backed into a moral corner on this. Back a minority bid from a local businessman and crap on the people that kindly loaned you £500k or dismiss the minority bid on the basis its not as good as the USA bid and keep them happy. Crucially they don't have to share the losing bidders proposal with the trust members merely set out their thinking but we of course will not be able to judge for ourselves. So don't hold your breath @NiceCarrots I don't think you will see the USA proposal anytime soon or not least until they have made a decision on who they are backing.
@NiceCarrots it really isn't that surprising though is it?
Why would the American Investors want their bid be made public knowledge before A Harman has submitted his bid?
I'm sorry, but you are just a wind up merchant. It's time that A Harman actually made a bid that the board can evaluate against the American bid.
At a little bit of a tangent to this thread, I was in the Vere suite on Saturday pre KO. At the fizzy bar buying a pint for my son, I was engaged in conversation by a fan who was incredibly animated that we should all vote the US bid through, my comment was how can I make an opinion on a bid I have seen no detail on. "anyone who knows anything about business would vote for Bill & Jim". The more I tried to explain that I could not make a view on a bid I haven't seen the more irate he got. I am genuinely getting slinters in my arse sitting on the fence waiting for all the information. My main concern is that we get to the end of the season with no decision. The club needs time to plan for next season, the earlier the better, it is going to be a real challenge "kicking on" after this season has been so successful (so far anyway)
@Fit2drop probably one of the people who are still adamant that Booker was a great idea.
The plan I took from the meeting is that Andy Harman has been invited to present his proposal to the Trust Board on 21 Feb. That date had still to be agreed by AH. Then the Trust Board will decide on their preferred bid, which will be presented to Legacy Members and voted on. Only the preferred bid will be revealed to members.
Although not stated at the meeting, I am assuming that the Americans' proposal is fixed and cannot be changed, and that neither party will have sight of, or knowledge of, the details of the other party's detailed proposal, notwithstanding that AH has publicly revealed some details of his proposal. So if the Americans' bid is preferred, it will still be for a majority stake.
There are so many unfounded assumptions and so much flawed reasoning in this post that I agree with @twizz, at least in general terms if not necessarily his precise diagnosis. This sort of post is hugely unhelpful.
Why would the US deal be fixed in place? Whilst I would have expected to see the details long before the late cancellation isn't it wise to park it until Harman bids and then negotiate further.
This has to be a stronger position for the club.
I am wondering why @NiceCarrots has chosen today to restart the debate with something that isn't really news. Why rattle the cage at this point other than to restoke the fire lit under Stroud and the board.
@NiceCarrots Like others I am balancing on the fence...but also like others I can see the logic of the US bidders standing back to let the Trust invite and assess the new bid that some people equally seem to think is the perfect solution without having seen it!. It makes perfect sense for the yanks to stand back amidst all the clamour and I, to be fair, commend them for it. Once it was they are not allowing Andy Harman's bid....now it is: 'ooo they pulled out so they can steal Andy's ideas' However accurate past posts on insider shenannigans have been I am starting find such hair on fire stuff insulting myself.
Hope you don't end up like humpty dumpty @Wendoverman!
What do you mean 'end up' ? @mooneyman more than half way there already hence the balancing difficulties!
But at least weve seen the outline from the Harman bid. (3 mil over 5 years, 2 to the club and 1 to the academy) Still absolutely bugger all from the americans.
@NiceCarrots This might be the page you are looking for -> https://web.archive.org/web/20190122173526/http://www.wycombewandererstrust.com/
@Croider true....but the devil will be in the detail.
F.A.O AlanB
Thanks for this.
IMHO we had about as much detail from the Americans outlined to the Trust members in the original introduction meeting as we now have from A Harman.
Don't forget, though, that the trust Board have seen more details from the Americans since then - actual a formal bid, although that may now be being revised - but still nothing formal from A Harman. In what world then do we have more information from A Harman than the Americans?
I'm neither for one bid or the other, I might not favour either bid in fact.