Leeds United are currently in a similar position and a summation of the situation by the Yorkshire Evening Post can be read here (includes reference to Premier League GKs):
@rmjlondon said:
looks like he won't take a wage cut at Birmingham and that's why he has been frozen out. looks like a ridiculous situation for the player to be in.
Will happen more and more often, Brum splashed cash for Redknapp then remembered they were skint when they didn't get to the promised land. Half the championship is basically bankrupt.
If, as someone on that Twitter exchange speculates, Leeds couldn’t match his wages, we had no hope. Presumably Birmingham paid him while he was with us - or did they?
Why should Stockdale agree to reduce his wages under a binding contract, particularly if the whole squad didn't agree a similar reduction? How many people on here would basically rip up their contract of employment?
@mooneyman said:
Why should Stockdale agree to reduce his wages under a binding contract, particularly if the whole squad didn't agree a similar reduction? How many people on here would basically rip up their contract of employment?
Absolutely agree.
I remember an awkward interview with Roger Johnson on Soccer AM when he was similarly being frozen out and training with the U18s at Wolves.
The interviewer asked if he could understand fans anger that he was still on a massive Premier League wage, despite never playing in the Championship.
He countered by saying it wasn't his choice to not be playing, that the club offered him that contract willingly, and he didn't think any of the presenters, fans or audience members would rip up a similar contract if they were entitled to it.
He also pointed out that if he was performing at the top of his game, in the first team every week, Wolves would be delighted they'd tied him down to a long contract, so it works both ways.
Clubs de facto do have some power here though. Stockdale is 33 and has eighteen months left on his contract. He cant have too long left to play. Does he put money over football and hang around the youth team for eighteen months OR agree to tear up his presumably lucrative contract to play somewhere else on less money. Its not fair at all on him but that must be a tough call.
Roj not the best example, he finished his career doing that and probably cost himself in the long run. Arguably if you back yourself as a player you find yourself a new club and work your way back in.
No, Roger Johnson is a great example. He was on a reputed 40k a week, and was well on the slide by then, personal problems etc, the move to Wolves was an utter disaster.
He would have recognised he was never getting anywhere near that wage again, so it would have been financial insanity to walk away with less.
Some of the contracts clubs give out don't seem to recognise that players can decline very rapidly at younger ages than you'd imagine. Rooney and Sanchez at United are two recent ones.
@micra said:
And the situation with Roger Johnson was quite complex, wasn’t it ? I vaguely recall lateness for training as having been an issue.
Some beer involved and coinciding with Wolves being truly awful, they made an example of him and a few others, probably a lot more complex tbh , Stockdale has shown he wants to play but would have to balance that with getting another big pay day at his age.
@Malone said:
No, Roger Johnson is a great example. He was on a reputed 40k a week, and was well on the slide by then, personal problems etc, the move to Wolves was an utter disaster.
He would have recognised he was never getting anywhere near that wage again, so it would have been financial insanity to walk away with less.
Some of the contracts clubs give out don't seem to recognise that players can decline very rapidly at younger ages than you'd imagine. Rooney and Sanchez at United are two recent ones.
Exactly. It doesn't matter why he's not playing, so long as his actions haven't invalidated his contract.
He is entitled to that money. The club agreed to the contract at the time, because it suited them.
Now it doesn't they can't rip it up, that's the entire point of contract law.
@OxfordBlue and of course what they are doing when making them train with the kids, slagging them off, getting the fans on their backs etc etc...is constructive dismissal, whereby the player has enough and tears up the contract and legs it in order to play thus saving the club money. Of course, if the player is at a point where they cannot afford to do that for whatever injury/age/family/gambling debt reasons they will stick it out.
I doubt that we were paying David Stockdales wages, his wage would probably pay our whole squad for a week, I believe Harry handed him a 21k a week deal.
@micra said:
If, as someone on that Twitter exchange speculates, Leeds couldn’t match his wages, we had no hope. Presumably Birmingham paid him while he was with us - or did they?
actually @Wendoverman , its the very opposite of constructive dismissal and just the line the club is trying to go up to but not cross. If it were constructive dismissal, player would be eligible for compensation, if they can piss him off enough to agree to leave without it being constructive dismissal he isn't (apart from anything they agree0
I worked with an ex Oxford player's wife for a bit, and the treatment Stockdale is facing seems typical stuff designed to simply crush the player's spirit and make them want to leave.
In any other type of work it'd be the stuff that would keep HR very busy.
Yes we've had a number of people at work leave 'entirely of their own accord' after a period of being moved around, their work assessed more closely than some of their colleagues and then moved around again...then another targetted appraisal intended to 'help' and then another move - repeat until towel thrown in.
Which brings me onto our squad. Sam Saunders? If you follow him on Instagram you will know that golf, drinking beer with Sammy Wood, shopping, playing with his daughter in the beach in Dubai have all featured ( shamelessly) over the past couple of weeks.
Will he be paid off in the Jan window?
Was Gaz correct to give him a contract extension?
We certainly seem to have a first and second choice formation that has no room for him, and he has looked pretty disinterested when he has played.
No one is talking about him, have we all given up on him?
Comments
Maybe @Peter has coincidentally damaged his typing hand.
@mooneyman Rob Green is not possible as from this season the Premier League do not allow seven day emergency GK loans.
Your absoflippinlutely right @eric_plant.
Cripes! I’m fookin slipping. “You’re”.
Are you sure that’s right, Phil.
No incoming emergency GK loans to the premier league, maybe. Have they also banned outgoing ones?
More realistic perhaps, Jordan smith, forest first choice last year, loaned to Barnsley for a week a fortnight ago.
@DevC Yes, I'm sure.
Leeds United are currently in a similar position and a summation of the situation by the Yorkshire Evening Post can be read here (includes reference to Premier League GKs):
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-what-the-efl-rule-book-says-about-the-emergency-goalkeeper-loan-clause-1-9458034
Because how awful would it be for a Premier League club to have to help an EFL club...
looks like he won't take a wage cut at Birmingham and that's why he has been frozen out. looks like a ridiculous situation for the player to be in.
Will happen more and more often, Brum splashed cash for Redknapp then remembered they were skint when they didn't get to the promised land. Half the championship is basically bankrupt.
We’d better be careful then. We’ll have to arrest our steady ascent towards the Championship and bankruptcy.
Thanks Phil. Odd rule. I wonder what its purpose is.
Stockdale clearly a very unhappy bunny.
https://twitter.com/stockogk1313?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
If, as someone on that Twitter exchange speculates, Leeds couldn’t match his wages, we had no hope. Presumably Birmingham paid him while he was with us - or did they?
Why should Stockdale agree to reduce his wages under a binding contract, particularly if the whole squad didn't agree a similar reduction? How many people on here would basically rip up their contract of employment?
Absolutely agree.
I remember an awkward interview with Roger Johnson on Soccer AM when he was similarly being frozen out and training with the U18s at Wolves.
The interviewer asked if he could understand fans anger that he was still on a massive Premier League wage, despite never playing in the Championship.
He countered by saying it wasn't his choice to not be playing, that the club offered him that contract willingly, and he didn't think any of the presenters, fans or audience members would rip up a similar contract if they were entitled to it.
He also pointed out that if he was performing at the top of his game, in the first team every week, Wolves would be delighted they'd tied him down to a long contract, so it works both ways.
Clubs de facto do have some power here though. Stockdale is 33 and has eighteen months left on his contract. He cant have too long left to play. Does he put money over football and hang around the youth team for eighteen months OR agree to tear up his presumably lucrative contract to play somewhere else on less money. Its not fair at all on him but that must be a tough call.
Roj not the best example, he finished his career doing that and probably cost himself in the long run. Arguably if you back yourself as a player you find yourself a new club and work your way back in.
And the situation with Roger Johnson was quite complex, wasn’t it ? I vaguely recall lateness for training as having been an issue.
No, Roger Johnson is a great example. He was on a reputed 40k a week, and was well on the slide by then, personal problems etc, the move to Wolves was an utter disaster.
He would have recognised he was never getting anywhere near that wage again, so it would have been financial insanity to walk away with less.
Some of the contracts clubs give out don't seem to recognise that players can decline very rapidly at younger ages than you'd imagine. Rooney and Sanchez at United are two recent ones.
sadly I think it was more than just "lateness" at training that was the issue
Some beer involved and coinciding with Wolves being truly awful, they made an example of him and a few others, probably a lot more complex tbh , Stockdale has shown he wants to play but would have to balance that with getting another big pay day at his age.
Didn't the great Mike Williamson get accused of being 'not up for it' in the Toon's last relegation campaign.
Exactly. It doesn't matter why he's not playing, so long as his actions haven't invalidated his contract.
He is entitled to that money. The club agreed to the contract at the time, because it suited them.
Now it doesn't they can't rip it up, that's the entire point of contract law.
@OxfordBlue and of course what they are doing when making them train with the kids, slagging them off, getting the fans on their backs etc etc...is constructive dismissal, whereby the player has enough and tears up the contract and legs it in order to play thus saving the club money. Of course, if the player is at a point where they cannot afford to do that for whatever injury/age/family/gambling debt reasons they will stick it out.
I doubt that we were paying David Stockdales wages, his wage would probably pay our whole squad for a week, I believe Harry handed him a 21k a week deal.
we certainly were not paying his full wages !!
actually @Wendoverman , its the very opposite of constructive dismissal and just the line the club is trying to go up to but not cross. If it were constructive dismissal, player would be eligible for compensation, if they can piss him off enough to agree to leave without it being constructive dismissal he isn't (apart from anything they agree0
@DevC I should have added 'in all but name'...it would have saved you some time and effort.
I worked with an ex Oxford player's wife for a bit, and the treatment Stockdale is facing seems typical stuff designed to simply crush the player's spirit and make them want to leave.
In any other type of work it'd be the stuff that would keep HR very busy.
Yes we've had a number of people at work leave 'entirely of their own accord' after a period of being moved around, their work assessed more closely than some of their colleagues and then moved around again...then another targetted appraisal intended to 'help' and then another move - repeat until towel thrown in.
Which brings me onto our squad. Sam Saunders? If you follow him on Instagram you will know that golf, drinking beer with Sammy Wood, shopping, playing with his daughter in the beach in Dubai have all featured ( shamelessly) over the past couple of weeks.
Will he be paid off in the Jan window?
Was Gaz correct to give him a contract extension?
We certainly seem to have a first and second choice formation that has no room for him, and he has looked pretty disinterested when he has played.
No one is talking about him, have we all given up on him?