Dev, your opening para cannot go unchallenged and you introduced a really interesting aspect which I hadn’t looked into much. “Davies” as you named him is our General Manager.
His LinkedIn background it interesting and a google search around his sports club management highlighted that Davies has limited experience of sports club management not “long” experience as you put it.
Prior to coming to Wycombe he was operationally running a smaller semi pro rugby club London Welsh which sadly went broke as he departed to come to us ,which I hope isn’t predictive!
Before that he held assistant and co-ordinating Roles mostly in minor sport governing bodies, not commercial sport P&L driven organisations or clubs.
On arrival this is what then chairman had to say and also what Mr Davies had to say -
“and Michael stood out as somebody **who can help us develop off the pitch in a number of key commercial areas. **
“His experience and expertise across marketing, sponsorship, retail, finance and general operations will stand him in good stead to implement the board’s strategies and policies, and maximise the potential of the staff at Adams Park to help improve the performance of each department at the club.”
Michael said: "The challenge at Wycombe Wanderers is one that excites me and I look forward to beginning the process of reviewing each area of the business to devise and implement ways to drive the club forward off the pitch.”
This was December 2016.
Where have we driven forward off the pitch ?
The statement opened “ We undertook a thorough search for the right person to build on the excellent progress that we have made over the past two-and-a-half years“
So we were making excellent progress up until December 2016 at least. This appointment was to drive us forward off the pitch .
But according to our own board we have gone backwards to the point of needing to sell up .
@Blue_since_1990 said:
Wow @DevC you don’t half spout out a lot in one go. A War and Peace like effort. The ‘amateur narrative’ jibe @marlowchair was totally unwarranted and you just cannot resist slipping into your nasty troll mode which immediately stops anyone taking your posts seriously.
You must have a sad old life? Why not try a trip to Adams Park to watch some football, it may just make you smile a bit and get you out of that hole you appear to be in.
I didn’t take it as a jibe at me rather he doesn’t feel that my view out club is run by mostly amateurs in an amateur way should have gained traction and is now accepted in the wider narrative.
Our trust board turn up for board meetings with flagons of the latest rebellion members drop in order to chat football . It’s brilliant and honest and pure , but more amateur in spirit than professional .
I don’t have issue with that and want it to remain , but feel we can do so much better at FC board and management level .
The main person involved in negotiations with senior fund managers who sat on derby county’s board , had zero relevant experience in such business . Not personal , an example of why I think amateur is a valid narrative.
Marlowchair, You are very good at posing questions, perhaps not so efficient at answering them. You aren’t obliged to, of course, and my apologies in advance if you did so and I missed your replies, but I would still be intrigued to know: 1) Do you have evidence that Andy Harman made a bid to become an investor and that said bid was considered not worthy of progressing?
2) That the reasons for the supposed bid being rejected were purely personal (you have alluded to a disagreement between Mr.Harman and Mr.Howard)?
3) If you knew someone looking to invest in a football club why didn’t you steer them in the direction of WWFC?
@Blue_since_1990 said: @Manboobs, thank you for that Derby County fan input, it certainly makes me feel a bit more comfortable with the choice of Luby and Collis. Their experience is obviously via GSE and they seem to have done a good job for Derby.
Their exit strategy being to sort out the running of the club and make it much more saleable and then sell.
Thank you again.
I cannot take any credit for that at all. The tip of the hat goes to @Uncle_T and whoever asked the question to the Derby forum.
I think that’s a cop out. You made the statements regarding Mr.Harman but now it seems you are not prepared to back them up. Are you prepared to tell us why your would be investor didn’t progress his interest?
@Blue_since_1990 said:
Wow @DevC you don’t half spout out a lot in one go. A War and Peace like effort. The ‘amateur narrative’ jibe @marlowchair was totally unwarranted and you just cannot resist slipping into your nasty troll mode which immediately stops anyone taking your posts seriously.
You must have a sad old life? Why not try a trip to Adams Park to watch some football, it may just make you smile a bit and get you out of that hole you appear to be in.
This reply is nastier and more personal than anything @devc had written in his post.
@glasshalffull said:
I think that’s a cop out. You made the statements regarding Mr.Harman but now it seems you are not prepared to back them up. Are you prepared to tell us why your would be investor didn’t progress his interest?
It’s not a cop out , I’m just an anonymous person with no credibility according to you , why bother about my answer when you can ask the horses mouth and verify it directly ?
I’ve said in previous posts why potential investors are not at the table for various reasons. Not knowing we were on the market for a majority share being one.
It is very simple. We are being presented with potential investors. We have the right to question, analyse and understand whether we think this is in the best interests of the club now and in the future and vote, in an informed way, accordingly.
Anyone with the best interests of the club has the duty to do so.
All the facts, rumours and innuendo are basically irrelevant and just background noise. We are where we are. We can whinge and moan all we like about how we got here but having a closed mind on what could (maybe, possibly, you never know, but probably not) be a good deal for the club at this moment of time can never, in my view, be thinking about the best interests of the club.
When it fails to get the 75% of the vote, then we can go back to the moaning!!
@Blue_since_1990 said:
Wow @DevC you don’t half spout out a lot in one go. A War and Peace like effort. The ‘amateur narrative’ jibe @marlowchair was totally unwarranted and you just cannot resist slipping into your nasty troll mode which immediately stops anyone taking your posts seriously.
You must have a sad old life? Why not try a trip to Adams Park to watch some football, it may just make you smile a bit and get you out of that hole you appear to be in.
I am constantly surprised, and rather disheartened, by the amount of ungrounded bile directed at Dev. The "amateur narrative" comment was not remotely unpleasant in any way, being a pretty accurate summary of Marlow's repeated suggestion that the board has handled this situation amateurishly. There was nothing nasty about it and it was by no measure unwarranted. I have no difficulty taking Dev's posts, which I tend to find dispassionate and fair-minded, seriously. I don't always find myself sharing the same perspective as him but I have never thought him knowingly partial or unfair.
And "You must have a sad old life?" is not a question. It's a nasty and unwarranted jibe.
Out of curiosity @marlowchair why have you directed people wanting to invest in A football club in our direction? I thought you believed that we should try and run the club in a sustainable manner before seeking outside investors.
@bookertease said:
Out of curiosity @marlowchair why have you directed people wanting to invest in A football club in our direction? I thought you believed that we should try and run the club in a sustainable manner before seeking outside investors.
Because it is the right and objective way to go about things.
If I failed to direct an investor to the club because my own personal view is that we are better off as fully supporter owned at all costs, then I’d be a hypocrite, guilty of the very kind of qualitative decision making and lack of measured & processed decision making that I feel so strongly is a fault of the current leadership throughout this entire process .
And you have already demonstrated your hypocracy, in my view, by not acting in the best interests of the club by dismissing the one potential investor we have been presented with without listening and considering the offer. Sorry. But that’s how I see your stubbornness
@bookertease said:
And you have already demonstrated your hypocracy, in my view, by not acting in the best interests of the club by dismissing the one potential investor we have been presented with without listening and considering the offer. Sorry. But that’s how I see your stubbornness
Except I’m not dismissing this investor.
Show me where once I have even commented on the worthiness of any investor proposal or offer?
I haven’t . Ever .
I’m dismissive of the idea we have even close to enough idea of our own current position, and bi idea of the true market potential of our club , to make ANY decision on our future . Period.
Also as ridiculous as your above own goal is your assertion I should demonstrate the same transparency as elected officials at our club .
It’s not my job of obligation to be transparent, it is theirs and they signed directors papers agreeing to it.
Those investors are currently at the table with two clubs in our division and one in league 2 who are all vying for their Partnership.
@marlowchair how is “And vote against any proposal if you see a legacy member” NOT a comment on the “worthiness of any investor proposal or offer?”
If we speak the same language that statement tells legacy members specifically to vote against any offer without bothering to consider it.
I fully appreciate you are under no obligation to be transparent, but if you want people to take you seriously it would help if you provided something tangible other than, ‘yea, these investor guys, pots of money, pointed them in the direction of the club but club not interested’ stories. Why for one moment should I actually believe you?
Those investors are currently at the table with two clubs in our division and one in league 2 who are all vying for their Partnership.
And you know this because?
You throw in these things seemingly to change the subject all the time. I know you know more stuff about the running of the club than most on here but go off on these tangents without any reasonable explanation and expect people to listen to you?
The difference between Derby County and WWFC is that Derby County FC owned the Stadium. WWFC does not own the Stadium. Is it the intention of The trust to sell the Stadium or just the Shares in WWFC. What Rent would the Trust charge the new Owners??. If they sell the Stadium that would be the end of the Frank Adams Legacy to High Wycombe. Is that what the Legacy members would vote for?
@wformation said:
The difference between Derby County and WWFC is that Derby County FC owned the Stadium. WWFC does not own the Stadium. Is it the intention of The trust to sell the Stadium or just the Shares in WWFC. What Rent would the Trust charge the new Owners??. If they sell the Stadium that would be the end of the Frank Adams Legacy to High Wycombe. Is that what the Legacy members would vote for?
All potential investors know that Adams Park Stadium is not on the table. It will remain owned by the Trust through Frank Adams Legacy Limited.
Thank You Alan, I only made those comment to highlight the different aspects of the Derby deal and any deal which may be offered to the Legacy members to vote on.
It’s not a cop out , I’m just an anonymous person with no credibility according to you , why bother about my answer when you can ask the horses mouth and verify it directly ?
I’ve said in previous posts why potential investors are not at the table for various reasons. Not knowing we were on the market for a majority share being one.
Still think that’s avoiding the question and for the record when did I ever say that you had no credibility? Anonymous,yes-that’s your prerogative. Still, great result today so not really bothered.
Comments
Dev, your opening para cannot go unchallenged and you introduced a really interesting aspect which I hadn’t looked into much. “Davies” as you named him is our General Manager.
His LinkedIn background it interesting and a google search around his sports club management highlighted that Davies has limited experience of sports club management not “long” experience as you put it.
Prior to coming to Wycombe he was operationally running a smaller semi pro rugby club London Welsh which sadly went broke as he departed to come to us ,which I hope isn’t predictive!
Before that he held assistant and co-ordinating Roles mostly in minor sport governing bodies, not commercial sport P&L driven organisations or clubs.
On arrival this is what then chairman had to say and also what Mr Davies had to say -
“and Michael stood out as somebody **who can help us develop off the pitch in a number of key commercial areas. **
“His experience and expertise across marketing, sponsorship, retail, finance and general operations will stand him in good stead to implement the board’s strategies and policies, and maximise the potential of the staff at Adams Park to help improve the performance of each department at the club.”
Michael said: "The challenge at Wycombe Wanderers is one that excites me and I look forward to beginning the process of reviewing each area of the business to devise and implement ways to drive the club forward off the pitch.”
This was December 2016.
Where have we driven forward off the pitch ?
The statement opened “ We undertook a thorough search for the right person to build on the excellent progress that we have made over the past two-and-a-half years“
So we were making excellent progress up until December 2016 at least. This appointment was to drive us forward off the pitch .
But according to our own board we have gone backwards to the point of needing to sell up .
I didn’t take it as a jibe at me rather he doesn’t feel that my view out club is run by mostly amateurs in an amateur way should have gained traction and is now accepted in the wider narrative.
Our trust board turn up for board meetings with flagons of the latest rebellion members drop in order to chat football . It’s brilliant and honest and pure , but more amateur in spirit than professional .
I don’t have issue with that and want it to remain , but feel we can do so much better at FC board and management level .
The main person involved in negotiations with senior fund managers who sat on derby county’s board , had zero relevant experience in such business . Not personal , an example of why I think amateur is a valid narrative.
Marlowchair, You are very good at posing questions, perhaps not so efficient at answering them. You aren’t obliged to, of course, and my apologies in advance if you did so and I missed your replies, but I would still be intrigued to know: 1) Do you have evidence that Andy Harman made a bid to become an investor and that said bid was considered not worthy of progressing?
2) That the reasons for the supposed bid being rejected were purely personal (you have alluded to a disagreement between Mr.Harman and Mr.Howard)?
3) If you knew someone looking to invest in a football club why didn’t you steer them in the direction of WWFC?
I cannot take any credit for that at all. The tip of the hat goes to @Uncle_T and whoever asked the question to the Derby forum.
You should ask those questions ( 1&2 )to the FC directors today if you are here .
Question 3- I know more than one . I have.
I think that’s a cop out. You made the statements regarding Mr.Harman but now it seems you are not prepared to back them up. Are you prepared to tell us why your would be investor didn’t progress his interest?
@right_in_the_middle @blue_since_1990 to be fair to wordsmith @devc he doesn't have a wycombe game to go to today.
This reply is nastier and more personal than anything @devc had written in his post.
It’s not a cop out , I’m just an anonymous person with no credibility according to you , why bother about my answer when you can ask the horses mouth and verify it directly ?
I’ve said in previous posts why potential investors are not at the table for various reasons. Not knowing we were on the market for a majority share being one.
Sorry bit of an in joke for myself, just had a few in the papers up here recently.
It is very simple. We are being presented with potential investors. We have the right to question, analyse and understand whether we think this is in the best interests of the club now and in the future and vote, in an informed way, accordingly.
Anyone with the best interests of the club has the duty to do so.
All the facts, rumours and innuendo are basically irrelevant and just background noise. We are where we are. We can whinge and moan all we like about how we got here but having a closed mind on what could (maybe, possibly, you never know, but probably not) be a good deal for the club at this moment of time can never, in my view, be thinking about the best interests of the club.
When it fails to get the 75% of the vote, then we can go back to the moaning!!
@Chris, probably right, I just get annoyed with the guy.
I am constantly surprised, and rather disheartened, by the amount of ungrounded bile directed at Dev. The "amateur narrative" comment was not remotely unpleasant in any way, being a pretty accurate summary of Marlow's repeated suggestion that the board has handled this situation amateurishly. There was nothing nasty about it and it was by no measure unwarranted. I have no difficulty taking Dev's posts, which I tend to find dispassionate and fair-minded, seriously. I don't always find myself sharing the same perspective as him but I have never thought him knowingly partial or unfair.
And "You must have a sad old life?" is not a question. It's a nasty and unwarranted jibe.
Out of curiosity @marlowchair why have you directed people wanting to invest in A football club in our direction? I thought you believed that we should try and run the club in a sustainable manner before seeking outside investors.
Because it is the right and objective way to go about things.
If I failed to direct an investor to the club because my own personal view is that we are better off as fully supporter owned at all costs, then I’d be a hypocrite, guilty of the very kind of qualitative decision making and lack of measured & processed decision making that I feel so strongly is a fault of the current leadership throughout this entire process .
So can you tell us what happened to these investors? Or are you the same as the board in making excuses about a lack of transparency?
And you have already demonstrated your hypocracy, in my view, by not acting in the best interests of the club by dismissing the one potential investor we have been presented with without listening and considering the offer. Sorry. But that’s how I see your stubbornness
Except I’m not dismissing this investor.
Show me where once I have even commented on the worthiness of any investor proposal or offer?
I haven’t . Ever .
I’m dismissive of the idea we have even close to enough idea of our own current position, and bi idea of the true market potential of our club , to make ANY decision on our future . Period.
Also as ridiculous as your above own goal is your assertion I should demonstrate the same transparency as elected officials at our club .
It’s not my job of obligation to be transparent, it is theirs and they signed directors papers agreeing to it.
Those investors are currently at the table with two clubs in our division and one in league 2 who are all vying for their Partnership.
@marlowchair how is “And vote against any proposal if you see a legacy member” NOT a comment on the “worthiness of any investor proposal or offer?”
If we speak the same language that statement tells legacy members specifically to vote against any offer without bothering to consider it.
I fully appreciate you are under no obligation to be transparent, but if you want people to take you seriously it would help if you provided something tangible other than, ‘yea, these investor guys, pots of money, pointed them in the direction of the club but club not interested’ stories. Why for one moment should I actually believe you?
And you know this because?
You throw in these things seemingly to change the subject all the time. I know you know more stuff about the running of the club than most on here but go off on these tangents without any reasonable explanation and expect people to listen to you?
Yes you are right @HCblue. I apologise @DevC, my comments were personal and unnecessary.
Good man, @Blue_since_1990. :-)
The difference between Derby County and WWFC is that Derby County FC owned the Stadium. WWFC does not own the Stadium. Is it the intention of The trust to sell the Stadium or just the Shares in WWFC. What Rent would the Trust charge the new Owners??. If they sell the Stadium that would be the end of the Frank Adams Legacy to High Wycombe. Is that what the Legacy members would vote for?
All potential investors know that Adams Park Stadium is not on the table. It will remain owned by the Trust through Frank Adams Legacy Limited.
Any making posts on this thread during the game today can't be Wycombe Wanderers fans.
Thank You Alan, I only made those comment to highlight the different aspects of the Derby deal and any deal which may be offered to the Legacy members to vote on.
Sorry @Right_in_the_Middle but I’m several thousand miles away and was doing it between refreshing my phone!!
Sorry accepted @bookertease . Let's see what rubbish @marlowchair uses as an excuse.
Still think that’s avoiding the question and for the record when did I ever say that you had no credibility? Anonymous,yes-that’s your prerogative. Still, great result today so not really bothered.
To be fair, he may have posted it before the match started, such was the delay waiting for Beeks to wrap up his speech.