I think Mawson will almost certainly be snapped up in the summer. At least 3 of the 'big 6' are rumoured to be interested. Sickening to think we would have probably nabbed a decent sell on fee of a few mil if we'd gone up against Southend and he'd signed on.
It is difficult to really judge where we stand defensively based on this season. The season has been more about a revolving door of availability through injury than choice of defensive partnership based on quality and form. Obviously with the players that have been released there will be strengthening in that area.
I must admit I didn't rate El -Abd at the start but he was superb the second half of the season . Then again I didn't rate GA as a manager back in the day . Explains why I don't work in football !
There have been a mix of views on the facebook page on this and I have made mine known on here . I don't expect all to agree with me and you may be correct that the majority would have him back .This does not change the fact that I think he has let the majority of fans down .The other reason I would prefer him to stay away is that he is the king of "hoof" .excellent powerful defender but not great vision and little ability in passing the ball . He was one of the main contributors to some pretty unpleasant football at times . El Abd is streets better in this dept in my opinion . You don't forgive a fan for acting like a yob on here but you do forgive a professional footballer for being one . I makes no sense to me .
Dear oh dear . I can see you lot won't be swayed ! I think the reason Pierre will not make the Championship is for the reasons I have given . You are right about one thing guys he is the hoofer of the lower leagues .
@James The problem is with your statement that "he let the majority of fans down". What does that mean? Is it subjective, or objective? If it's objective, it's a really weird statement, because really he must have let all the fans down or none of them. If it's subjective, then what you're really asserting is that a majority of fans felt let down. In which case, as @Chris said, you are seeking to speak for a majority of the fans.
I don’t think Aaron is championship quality. I admit his passing leaves a lot to be desired. I agree he had a lapse of judgement. But because I don’t agree with everything you say take on this strange patronising tone.
I did not intend to suggest I spoke for anyone other than myself . I think he let the club down as a whole , his manager and himself . When I stated I thought he had let the "majority "of fans down , I probably should have just used the collective "fans" . The fans are part of the club and therefore in my opinion they were let down . I used the "majority" as I am sure there are a "minority" who would have been quite impressed by his actions and make a habit of reacting to provocation in a similar way . Even if you feel his actions are forgivable and that it was out of character surely any civilized person would have felt let down by him at the time ?
Pierre was a superb defender, pace strength all the qualities you would want in a lower league defender. For me you have to ask yourself why did he hoof so much and that comes down to 2 things 1) he had no options to pass or 2) he was told to. Clearly not a strength of his but then I doubt he ever practiced his ranged passing in training! If that’s the tactics he shouldn’t be the one playing the long balls, he should have the option to pass to the likes of jj who can play a more accurate ball but if my memory serves me right we didn’t exactly give are cb’s much of an option. Mawson has gone on to be streaks ahead of him however In that playoff season I think Pierre was equally important and the games we struggled defensively in was when Pierre was suspended, burton at home sticks out in my mind when it was mawson and Rowe in defence. He was one of those players that I’d be worried if he wasn’t in the team, get the same feeling with the likes of Luke and bayo. Point being he was a superb servant for this club and imho we would be very lucky to get him back
See now you are speaking for us “civilised people” @James. (Not a serous comment in case you aren’t a regular visitor)
Slightly different circumstances but do you have a view on Cantona?
He similarly let the manager, fans, club, sport, teammates down but seems to have been forgiven and accepted back willingly.
I happen to agree that APs actions should be condemned. What I found most distasteful about the whole affair however was the almost gleeful response to the (alleged) goading by a section of our fans who seemed almost pleased that they’d got him to react as they did.
I am not (and never could have been) a professional footballer so can’t say presume to look at the consequences from his position. I am however a Wycombe football fan and I did feel greatly let down by the antics and aftermath of my fellow supporters.
I still struggle to accept all this "headbutt" talk. We saw the photo of the chap, he had a tiny little dot of blood, that looked like it had been smeared for max effect, but still looked little.
Do we think a muscle man like Pierre doing a proper headbutt would leave such little mark?
Yes it was unfortunate, but i'd imagine a hell of a lot of players would react at some point when the situation changes from inside the ground, to one on one outside.
Compared to what a lot of players have done, and compared to have successful careers, this little incident really is small fry.
@na104, I actually couldn't agree more with that. When Pierre was out for the odd game I worried.
He was a terrific defender rarely beaten in the air or on the floor.
All this "can't pass" garbage really irritates me, as since when has that been the key for a lower league centre back?!
I'm pretty sure our centre backs were told to take a touch then knock it at times, as whether it was him or Stewart, they had a period where they never seemed to do differently.
As I recall the game the incident followed the big man hadn't even played badly...so I assume he was just a player around when our true fans decided to have a pop. And as I'm not sure i believe the twitternose ketchup guy managed to provoke AP to stop his car and inflict life changing violence by merely suggesting he had a poor game I cannot be sure if he let me down or not.
It seems to me, if someone said God I was drunk and a knob and mouthed off and got him riled and I regret it now, it's easier to take than people whining about someone reacting to verbal abuse. But they keep coming back to it. As I said we don't really know what was said...so perhaps some people let their fellow fans, friends and family down? Who knows.
@Malone Back to Jacobson - I think Shrewsbury got relegated to League 2 in the season before he was released, but was still voted player of the season. I can only aasume he was either on big money or had somehow burned his bridges, but whatever the reason, still looks to be an incredibly poor decision from them. Arguably the pick of our transfers that summer (we also signed Hayes, Pierre, etc.)
On Pierre: whilst not for one moment condoning the alleged incident with a ‘fan’, the age of social media has created a belief that you can say what you like to anyone without suffering any consequences. Insults are normally delivered from the safety of a keyboard or the anonymity of a crowd (you only have to watch football on tv to see the abuse hurled at players taking a corner or a throw in).
In the Pierre case it was done face to face, albeit apparently from a distance and whilst having the protection of several ‘mates’. That’s taking it to a new level and if you risk confronting someone in that way, you risk them overreacting.
Of course, players were never abused by fans while taking a corner or a throw-in before the invention of social media. I'm sure Cyrille Regis and Albert Johanneson would totally back you up there.
You only have to look at any football banter video, thread or forum to see the levels people stoop to.
Agree 100% with @glasshalffull on his take on our "yob".
The guy had clearly got used to being able to shout whatever abuse he liked from the safety of the mob he surrounds himself with.
Fuelled by booze he made the ill decision to expand that to in the flesh, and got what you can risk getting if you abuse someone bigger and stronger!
@drcongo said:
Of course, players were never abused by fans while taking a corner or a throw-in before the invention of social media. I'm sure Cyrille Regis and Albert Johanneson would totally back you up there.
Did I say that abuse didn’t exist before?
My point is that social media has given people a new and bigger platform to be abusive and a lot of people now regard that as the norm (in the same way you clearly think sarcasm is the best way to make your point).
@glasshalffull said:
Did I say that abuse didn’t exist before?
Pretty much, yes.
the age of social media has created a belief that you can say what you like to anyone without suffering any consequences
If social media created it, it cannot have existed before. Are you saying something can exist before it is created? Because if you are, we're into existential debate and I Kant be bothered with that.
Comments
I think Mawson will almost certainly be snapped up in the summer. At least 3 of the 'big 6' are rumoured to be interested. Sickening to think we would have probably nabbed a decent sell on fee of a few mil if we'd gone up against Southend and he'd signed on.
It is difficult to really judge where we stand defensively based on this season. The season has been more about a revolving door of availability through injury than choice of defensive partnership based on quality and form. Obviously with the players that have been released there will be strengthening in that area.
Mawson will still be playing Premier League football next season. My bet would be on West Ham.
I must admit I didn't rate El -Abd at the start but he was superb the second half of the season . Then again I didn't rate GA as a manager back in the day . Explains why I don't work in football !
There have been a mix of views on the facebook page on this and I have made mine known on here . I don't expect all to agree with me and you may be correct that the majority would have him back .This does not change the fact that I think he has let the majority of fans down .The other reason I would prefer him to stay away is that he is the king of "hoof" .excellent powerful defender but not great vision and little ability in passing the ball . He was one of the main contributors to some pretty unpleasant football at times . El Abd is streets better in this dept in my opinion . You don't forgive a fan for acting like a yob on here but you do forgive a professional footballer for being one . I makes no sense to me .
In the lower leagues a balanced central defence is often a powerful hoofer combined with a less imposing, ball playing partner.
Which is why Pierre generally played well with the more cultured Stewart
Dear oh dear . I can see you lot won't be swayed ! I think the reason Pierre will not make the Championship is for the reasons I have given . You are right about one thing guys he is the hoofer of the lower leagues .
@James The problem is with your statement that "he let the majority of fans down". What does that mean? Is it subjective, or objective? If it's objective, it's a really weird statement, because really he must have let all the fans down or none of them. If it's subjective, then what you're really asserting is that a majority of fans felt let down. In which case, as @Chris said, you are seeking to speak for a majority of the fans.
I don’t think Aaron is championship quality. I admit his passing leaves a lot to be desired. I agree he had a lapse of judgement. But because I don’t agree with everything you say take on this strange patronising tone.
I did not intend to suggest I spoke for anyone other than myself . I think he let the club down as a whole , his manager and himself . When I stated I thought he had let the "majority "of fans down , I probably should have just used the collective "fans" . The fans are part of the club and therefore in my opinion they were let down . I used the "majority" as I am sure there are a "minority" who would have been quite impressed by his actions and make a habit of reacting to provocation in a similar way . Even if you feel his actions are forgivable and that it was out of character surely any civilized person would have felt let down by him at the time ?
Pierre was a superb defender, pace strength all the qualities you would want in a lower league defender. For me you have to ask yourself why did he hoof so much and that comes down to 2 things 1) he had no options to pass or 2) he was told to. Clearly not a strength of his but then I doubt he ever practiced his ranged passing in training! If that’s the tactics he shouldn’t be the one playing the long balls, he should have the option to pass to the likes of jj who can play a more accurate ball but if my memory serves me right we didn’t exactly give are cb’s much of an option. Mawson has gone on to be streaks ahead of him however In that playoff season I think Pierre was equally important and the games we struggled defensively in was when Pierre was suspended, burton at home sticks out in my mind when it was mawson and Rowe in defence. He was one of those players that I’d be worried if he wasn’t in the team, get the same feeling with the likes of Luke and bayo. Point being he was a superb servant for this club and imho we would be very lucky to get him back
See now you are speaking for us “civilised people” @James. (Not a serous comment in case you aren’t a regular visitor)
Slightly different circumstances but do you have a view on Cantona?
He similarly let the manager, fans, club, sport, teammates down but seems to have been forgiven and accepted back willingly.
I happen to agree that APs actions should be condemned. What I found most distasteful about the whole affair however was the almost gleeful response to the (alleged) goading by a section of our fans who seemed almost pleased that they’d got him to react as they did.
I am not (and never could have been) a professional footballer so can’t say presume to look at the consequences from his position. I am however a Wycombe football fan and I did feel greatly let down by the antics and aftermath of my fellow supporters.
I still struggle to accept all this "headbutt" talk. We saw the photo of the chap, he had a tiny little dot of blood, that looked like it had been smeared for max effect, but still looked little.
Do we think a muscle man like Pierre doing a proper headbutt would leave such little mark?
Yes it was unfortunate, but i'd imagine a hell of a lot of players would react at some point when the situation changes from inside the ground, to one on one outside.
Compared to what a lot of players have done, and compared to have successful careers, this little incident really is small fry.
@na104, I actually couldn't agree more with that. When Pierre was out for the odd game I worried.
He was a terrific defender rarely beaten in the air or on the floor.
All this "can't pass" garbage really irritates me, as since when has that been the key for a lower league centre back?!
I'm pretty sure our centre backs were told to take a touch then knock it at times, as whether it was him or Stewart, they had a period where they never seemed to do differently.
As I recall the game the incident followed the big man hadn't even played badly...so I assume he was just a player around when our true fans decided to have a pop. And as I'm not sure i believe the twitternose ketchup guy managed to provoke AP to stop his car and inflict life changing violence by merely suggesting he had a poor game I cannot be sure if he let me down or not.
"it's an early bath for you Mr Cantona" comes to mind.
Still think it was the best thing in football since Cantona kung fu kicked a racist.
It seems to me, if someone said God I was drunk and a knob and mouthed off and got him riled and I regret it now, it's easier to take than people whining about someone reacting to verbal abuse. But they keep coming back to it. As I said we don't really know what was said...so perhaps some people let their fellow fans, friends and family down? Who knows.
Anyway el-abd looks like he turned around initial misgivings.
The chap who did it came on around the incident said what he said.
So add a few more swears in, with more aggression, and we're probably there.
(edit seems not to work for me, but make a sentence out of that first line, before micra wades in)
@Malone Back to Jacobson - I think Shrewsbury got relegated to League 2 in the season before he was released, but was still voted player of the season. I can only aasume he was either on big money or had somehow burned his bridges, but whatever the reason, still looks to be an incredibly poor decision from them. Arguably the pick of our transfers that summer (we also signed Hayes, Pierre, etc.)
On Pierre: whilst not for one moment condoning the alleged incident with a ‘fan’, the age of social media has created a belief that you can say what you like to anyone without suffering any consequences. Insults are normally delivered from the safety of a keyboard or the anonymity of a crowd (you only have to watch football on tv to see the abuse hurled at players taking a corner or a throw in).
In the Pierre case it was done face to face, albeit apparently from a distance and whilst having the protection of several ‘mates’. That’s taking it to a new level and if you risk confronting someone in that way, you risk them overreacting.
Of course, players were never abused by fans while taking a corner or a throw-in before the invention of social media. I'm sure Cyrille Regis and Albert Johanneson would totally back you up there.
You only have to look at any football banter video, thread or forum to see the levels people stoop to.
Agree 100% with @glasshalffull on his take on our "yob".
The guy had clearly got used to being able to shout whatever abuse he liked from the safety of the mob he surrounds himself with.
Fuelled by booze he made the ill decision to expand that to in the flesh, and got what you can risk getting if you abuse someone bigger and stronger!
Did I say that abuse didn’t exist before?
My point is that social media has given people a new and bigger platform to be abusive and a lot of people now regard that as the norm (in the same way you clearly think sarcasm is the best way to make your point).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/11349364/Why-we-yearn-for-the-good-old-days.html
Pretty much, yes.
If social media created it, it cannot have existed before. Are you saying something can exist before it is created? Because if you are, we're into existential debate and I Kant be bothered with that.
It can exist in a parallel universe before it is created in our universe surely?