@aloysius I would suggest those fans had not visited the place for a football game when they were crowing. It is terrible. I am not being overly sentimental for Upton Park as clearly large parts of the stadium could have been improved upon but that was possible, again Spurs and Chelsea are proving that.
The owners care very little about the fans as the fans are large unimportant to the owners in terms of revenue. The previous suggestion about name changes, crest changes etc etc show that.
Summing up these very rich guys (and their puppet woman) will remain very rich. If that screws West Ham fans then so be it. Which is exactly where this thread started and is a warning to the future for all football fans.
@DevC as I understand it and please feel free anyone to insert facts and figures. I got this gist from articles in them old fangled newspapers and some views on the interweb. They have gone from a beloved home (admittedly in need of some TLC) to a new ground, originally built for athletics and still to be used as such, that they are not allowed to brand and is poor for watching football, but the owners got a good deal as we (the taxpayers) are footing a lot of the bill. Results are poor. Financially it has proved no more lucrative than the last season at Upton Park. Not sure who got the money for the sale of the Boelyn site, but they feel they have been sold a pup by greedy people who do not have the interests of their club at heart. Football fans, eh?
Oh and from Popbitch (a scurrilous gossip site @DevC :
Hammered <<
An obvious chopper
Pitch invasions at the London Stadium topped off a week of stories about how West Ham fans were organising mass protests over what's happened to all the club's money since it was taken over by David Sullivan, David Gold and Karren Brady.
There's a million things that could have set off Saturday's protesters but perhaps one of them was sat at home watching Sky Sports News on Friday. There was an interview with David Sullivan's son, Jack, who's been given his own column on the club's website and the rather cushy role of "Ladies Managing Director".
Sat very obviously in shot behind Jack throughout the interview? His helicopter.
Oh good a thread where Dev repeatedly says he doesn't understand something despite making no effort to understand it himself while other posters spoon feed him information.
As you have responded again, Wendover, let me respond to your response. Quick bit of research.
David Sullivan is a billionaire. I think Gold maybe as well, Brady is not short of a bob or two. good for them.
Not sure what business it is of West ham supporters whether or not Sullivan owns a helicopter unless west ham paid for it. This does not appear to be the case.
Proceeds of sale of upton park, as a company asset went into company funds.
Directors of west ham take a combined annual salary of £1m out of a total wage bill of £95m.(up 10% on the year before). Their wage bill is broadly comparable to stoke for example (choosing a club at random).
No dividends are paid.
Shareholders are owed loans of £49m by the club. Those loans attract interest at around 6%. (mostly accrued rather than paid)
West ham made a profit last year (helped by TV money and player sales). Nonetheless it is still heavily in debt.
West ham fans feel how they do, but it is hard to see facts that support the view that the directors are fleecing the club as it appears is suggested.
First full year in the new stadium, crowds increased by an average of 60% but ticket money increased by a marginal amount. this appears to be a result of a substantial reduction in prices charged - it appears the fans have benefitted financially from moving to the new stadium in lower prices.
West Ham appear to have underperformed on the pitch for the last two seasons. They chose some bad players to sign and lost their best player (Payet). It happens.
west ham fans feel as they do, but perhaps they are pointing the finger unfairly at the board for the quality of the squad rather than the manager at the time. As they have a wage bill roughly the same as stoke, arguably they are not underperforming at all.
There may well be issues with the atmosphere and view in the stadium - I haven't been but as I said above athletics and football don't go together happily. Hard to see what can be done about that now.
West ham fans appear to be unhappy with the stadium (perhaps justifiably). Would they be as unhappy if the team were performing better I wonder?
I see your point. Bunch of ungrateful yobboes shouting at caring billionaires whose only aim is to run a club for the good of the community. Nothing to do about it now. Sit down, pay up and shut up. Football fans...what a shower. You were asking what was upsetting them...that what was I responding to. You need to post that on a West Ham forum, they needs educating.
@DevC I am usually appreciative of your alternative and detailed (if a bit long-winded sometimes) contributions and the Gasroom would (in my opinion) be a poorer place without you.
I do thing that here, as occasionally elsewhere, you are missing the key point. You arguments on WHU are entirely rational. Football fans are a long long way from being rational and behave in a completely illogical and emotional way.
If we didn’t no-one from Wycombe would have gone to Torquay to watch the last rites and there would be about 10 professional football teams left in the country and the rules skewed to even the playing field so that the weak don’t disappear completely (as in American Football).
It simple. West Ham fans feel they are being screwed and are venting their frustrations. It matters little if there is any evidence or not to support their frustration.
(I would actually like to live in that sort of world but that boat has long sailed out the harbour)
Dev, you were a Hayes apologist throughout his tenure at the club
And you said that you would have accepted, as an Irthlingborough fan, the eventual death of your club for the rise that took place beforehand. Fair enough, I've made the logical step that you would also accept a similar fate for Wycombe for a similarly proportionate rise through the leagues. Otherwise I'm not sure of the point of the Irthlingborough post
You are right I think. Football fans are just human beings and human beings often act emotionally rather than rationally, eapecially when they are in herds.
There is no doubt that some at least feel aggrieved and no doubt feel they are justified in feeling so. I guess I was trying to understand their complaints and assess for myself whether they are justified.
I do fear where we are going in society in general. If your football team is doing badly, then somebody in authority must not just have made some honest bad decisions but actively conspiring against them. Those in charge must be bad people. They must be stealing from you. The people talk to people who agree with them on social media and confirm each other's prejudices. Wild theories become believed as fact. He's a billionaire, he's got a helicopter, must be screwing us then.
That way we get Trump and brexit and Corbyn and Rees-Mogg. I fear we have a major problem ahead.
@eric_plant said:
Dev, you were a Hayes apologist throughout his tenure at the club
And you said that you would have accepted, as an Irthlingborough fan, the eventual death of your club for the rise that took place beforehand. Fair enough, I've made the logical step that you would also accept a similar fate for Wycombe for a similarly proportionate rise through the leagues. Otherwise I'm not sure of the point of the Irthlingborough post
And he would probably welcome Shylock back with open arms!
@DevC You tend to go rather quiet about your previous 'rabble rousing' for Sharky's Stadium these days.
But as you rarely ever attend games, and your affection for the Wanderers is quite questionable, i dont suppose you suffer from many guilt pangs ??
"He also said he'd be willing to accept Wycombe Wanderers going out of existence in exchange for a couple of seasons in the championship"
"And you said that you would have accepted, as an Irthlingborough fan, the eventual death of your club for the rise that took place beforehand. Fair enough, I've made the logical step that you would also accept a similar fate for Wycombe for a similarly proportionate rise through the leagues. Otherwise I'm not sure of the point of the Irthlingborough post"
So what you claimed was a fact was in fact your inference. That is shameful bare-faced lying, Eric.
Oh and by the way, I just reported the comments of Rushden supporters on their forum. their views not mine. Still never let the facts get in the way of your convenient lies.
and I never advocated the new stadium either. That's another lie. all I did say was that I'd listen to the case if ever it was presented. it never was.
a catalogue of lies, eric. That's piss poor by anybody's standards. You owe me an apology. i doubt you are a big enough man, sadly.
Comments
Actually Dev was in favour of that
Aaah.
He also said he'd be willing to accept Wycombe Wanderers going out of existence in exchange for a couple of seasons in the championship
Always good to get a bit of context
Both of your comments are barefaced lies Eric.
Pitiful.
I am trying to understand what it is West ham fans are complaining about, Wendover.
@aloysius I would suggest those fans had not visited the place for a football game when they were crowing. It is terrible. I am not being overly sentimental for Upton Park as clearly large parts of the stadium could have been improved upon but that was possible, again Spurs and Chelsea are proving that.
The owners care very little about the fans as the fans are large unimportant to the owners in terms of revenue. The previous suggestion about name changes, crest changes etc etc show that.
Summing up these very rich guys (and their puppet woman) will remain very rich. If that screws West Ham fans then so be it. Which is exactly where this thread started and is a warning to the future for all football fans.
@DevC as I understand it and please feel free anyone to insert facts and figures. I got this gist from articles in them old fangled newspapers and some views on the interweb. They have gone from a beloved home (admittedly in need of some TLC) to a new ground, originally built for athletics and still to be used as such, that they are not allowed to brand and is poor for watching football, but the owners got a good deal as we (the taxpayers) are footing a lot of the bill. Results are poor. Financially it has proved no more lucrative than the last season at Upton Park. Not sure who got the money for the sale of the Boelyn site, but they feel they have been sold a pup by greedy people who do not have the interests of their club at heart. Football fans, eh?
Oh and from Popbitch (a scurrilous gossip site @DevC :
An obvious chopper
Pitch invasions at the London Stadium topped off a week of stories about how West Ham fans were organising mass protests over what's happened to all the club's money since it was taken over by David Sullivan, David Gold and Karren Brady.
There's a million things that could have set off Saturday's protesters but perhaps one of them was sat at home watching Sky Sports News on Friday. There was an interview with David Sullivan's son, Jack, who's been given his own column on the club's website and the rather cushy role of "Ladies Managing Director".
Sat very obviously in shot behind Jack throughout the interview? His helicopter.
Oh good a thread where Dev repeatedly says he doesn't understand something despite making no effort to understand it himself while other posters spoon feed him information.
@Wendoverman Popbitch 'scurrilous'? Its more truthful than the majority of our tabloid press and its Eurovision coverage is second to none.
Bet Leyton Orient are glad they didn't get the place now!
We are going around in circles and at least one poster is barefaced lying - which is a bit shit really.
See post of 11.25 above.
Not sure I have any more to add.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub I'm with you...I wanted to put it in context properly before @DevC googlified it and dismissed it out of hand!
But it is impossible for the great man to say: 'I don't understand what the fans' problem is' now shurely?
As you have responded again, Wendover, let me respond to your response. Quick bit of research.
David Sullivan is a billionaire. I think Gold maybe as well, Brady is not short of a bob or two. good for them.
Not sure what business it is of West ham supporters whether or not Sullivan owns a helicopter unless west ham paid for it. This does not appear to be the case.
Proceeds of sale of upton park, as a company asset went into company funds.
Directors of west ham take a combined annual salary of £1m out of a total wage bill of £95m.(up 10% on the year before). Their wage bill is broadly comparable to stoke for example (choosing a club at random).
No dividends are paid.
Shareholders are owed loans of £49m by the club. Those loans attract interest at around 6%. (mostly accrued rather than paid)
West ham made a profit last year (helped by TV money and player sales). Nonetheless it is still heavily in debt.
West ham fans feel how they do, but it is hard to see facts that support the view that the directors are fleecing the club as it appears is suggested.
First full year in the new stadium, crowds increased by an average of 60% but ticket money increased by a marginal amount. this appears to be a result of a substantial reduction in prices charged - it appears the fans have benefitted financially from moving to the new stadium in lower prices.
West Ham appear to have underperformed on the pitch for the last two seasons. They chose some bad players to sign and lost their best player (Payet). It happens.
west ham fans feel as they do, but perhaps they are pointing the finger unfairly at the board for the quality of the squad rather than the manager at the time. As they have a wage bill roughly the same as stoke, arguably they are not underperforming at all.
There may well be issues with the atmosphere and view in the stadium - I haven't been but as I said above athletics and football don't go together happily. Hard to see what can be done about that now.
West ham fans appear to be unhappy with the stadium (perhaps justifiably). Would they be as unhappy if the team were performing better I wonder?
I see your point. Bunch of ungrateful yobboes shouting at caring billionaires whose only aim is to run a club for the good of the community. Nothing to do about it now. Sit down, pay up and shut up. Football fans...what a shower. You were asking what was upsetting them...that what was I responding to. You need to post that on a West Ham forum, they needs educating.
@DevC I am usually appreciative of your alternative and detailed (if a bit long-winded sometimes) contributions and the Gasroom would (in my opinion) be a poorer place without you.
I do thing that here, as occasionally elsewhere, you are missing the key point. You arguments on WHU are entirely rational. Football fans are a long long way from being rational and behave in a completely illogical and emotional way.
If we didn’t no-one from Wycombe would have gone to Torquay to watch the last rites and there would be about 10 professional football teams left in the country and the rules skewed to even the playing field so that the weak don’t disappear completely (as in American Football).
It simple. West Ham fans feel they are being screwed and are venting their frustrations. It matters little if there is any evidence or not to support their frustration.
(I would actually like to live in that sort of world but that boat has long sailed out the harbour)
Dev, you were a Hayes apologist throughout his tenure at the club
And you said that you would have accepted, as an Irthlingborough fan, the eventual death of your club for the rise that took place beforehand. Fair enough, I've made the logical step that you would also accept a similar fate for Wycombe for a similarly proportionate rise through the leagues. Otherwise I'm not sure of the point of the Irthlingborough post
Thank you booker. Much appreciated.
You are right I think. Football fans are just human beings and human beings often act emotionally rather than rationally, eapecially when they are in herds.
There is no doubt that some at least feel aggrieved and no doubt feel they are justified in feeling so. I guess I was trying to understand their complaints and assess for myself whether they are justified.
I do fear where we are going in society in general. If your football team is doing badly, then somebody in authority must not just have made some honest bad decisions but actively conspiring against them. Those in charge must be bad people. They must be stealing from you. The people talk to people who agree with them on social media and confirm each other's prejudices. Wild theories become believed as fact. He's a billionaire, he's got a helicopter, must be screwing us then.
That way we get Trump and brexit and Corbyn and Rees-Mogg. I fear we have a major problem ahead.
And he would probably welcome Shylock back with open arms!
Not being funny @DevC but I'm not sure the average Ammer cares whether or not you think their concerns are justified.
@Wendoverman , that's mean. I'm sure West Ham fans are as interested in Dev's views as Wycombe fans...
@DevC You tend to go rather quiet about your previous 'rabble rousing' for Sharky's Stadium these days.
But as you rarely ever attend games, and your affection for the Wanderers is quite questionable, i dont suppose you suffer from many guilt pangs ??
"He also said he'd be willing to accept Wycombe Wanderers going out of existence in exchange for a couple of seasons in the championship"
"And you said that you would have accepted, as an Irthlingborough fan, the eventual death of your club for the rise that took place beforehand. Fair enough, I've made the logical step that you would also accept a similar fate for Wycombe for a similarly proportionate rise through the leagues. Otherwise I'm not sure of the point of the Irthlingborough post"
So what you claimed was a fact was in fact your inference. That is shameful bare-faced lying, Eric.
Oh and by the way, I just reported the comments of Rushden supporters on their forum. their views not mine. Still never let the facts get in the way of your convenient lies.
and I never advocated the new stadium either. That's another lie. all I did say was that I'd listen to the case if ever it was presented. it never was.
a catalogue of lies, eric. That's piss poor by anybody's standards. You owe me an apology. i doubt you are a big enough man, sadly.
Get a room you two!
Who is the most likely to be seen at Adams Park ? Sharky Hayes or DevC ??
Sure I spotted Hayes at the Coventry game.
Hard to miss.
He was just early for the Wasps game the next day
Had you not noticed they’d left, eric?
But where do they play now Micra?