Thoughts please on our centre back issues.
Obviously, Pierre leaving for pastures new was always going to leave literally a massive void. I think only signing John Terry could have satisfied the majority, but, it is what it is. El-Abd was the one tasked with mission impossible. Now that we have seen a few performances, who, in your opinion should we have as 1st choice centre backs given that we have:
El-Abd
Stewart
WDH
Jombati
Muller
Personally, if Stewart is available I wouldn't mind going with a 3-5-2 formation, as he has the pace to recover the OTT ball, but that isn't going to happen, as such we know we are always going to play with 4 along the back, so what is the best 4?
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I'd give Stewart and El Abd a decent chance to form a partnership and see how it goes.
Harriman and Jacobson full backs, Jombati unlucky to miss out.
I would partner Stewart with El-Abd, put Jombati back at full back and utilize Harriman as the wide midfielder.
I'd have Stewart and Muller or De Havilland. I love Sido, and thought he did OK today, but I want to see a partnership form for a permanent preferred pairing and I'd rather have Sido at right back.
I entirely concur with Andy Beaumont's thinking. Apart from the De Havilland bit.
Stewart & El Abd for me - I think writing 'El' off after 4 games is a bit daft. Sido offers a lot going forward and has done nothing wrong but he is not a dominant CB.
El Abd had played quite well in the first 3 games I thought. Hopefully today is an exception and not the rule!
It was pretty obvious today that we're not big or strong enough defensively.
Losing two high quality players like Pierre and Blackman, both of whom were serious units, was always going to show at some point and that point was today.
Both El-Abd and Brown struggled to dominate their respective areas of responsibility. One player you might cope with, two no chance. Every time the ball was crossed or thrown into the box we looked all at sea.
In the end we were reliant on Sido Jombati to be our 'dominant' physical centre-half and in the end we paid the price as he got completely nailed by Ameobi for the third goal.
That's not to blame Sido, he's done really well as a fledgling centre half and it's a hell of an ask to expect him to carry his defensive partner and goalkeeper.
Numerous times the back five were bailed out by Bayo being dragged back from the halfway line for set pieces.
Obviously Stewart has to come back next week. For me, alongside Sido but Gareth has invested a lot of faith in El-Abd having made him captain so I doubt that'll happen.
Long term though we need to look at getting some size and power into the back four, particularly if we're persisting with Brown in goal. That might mean Sido at full-back to give us a third six-footer in the back four and maybe Muller and Stewart in the middle.
Wouldn't rule out Will De Havilland later in the season either. With Pierre gone he's got the biggest physical presence of our defensive players and some time spent learning his craft at Aldershot, hopefully extended through to January, may make all the difference.
The problem is that any pairing will take time to develop. And during that time points may be lost. My belief is Muller and Stewart, given time could be the answer but without reserve games putting them together could be a short term disaster. So I hope El-Abd and Stewart gel well enough to provide stability and support for Brown and El-Abd can grow into the armband. Because that's what we're going with.
Side note on El Abd, even though I thought he was pretty terrible today and left Sido stranded on several occasions, I was surprised how many headers he won for someone barely over five feet tall.
Just seen the highlights, laughable defending. Stewart and Muller but as @Manboobs says it takes time to develop a partnership. I can see a new GK coming in on loan too.
Actually, for all the praise Harriman has had today, he also got drawn out of position way too easily when defending.
I'm with @mooneyman - let Harriman play a more attacking role; he excelled going forward today and that's where he was always at his best when he joined us.
Gaz has many fighting qualities, his weakness is being dogmatic. I fear his faith in the Egyptian midget is another Stewart Lewis in the making (& look where that got us). Folk saying don't judge after 4 games / good first 3 etc! He won't get any taller or quicker , the Shrews manager and fans knew something, he got skinned for Vales goal and was all over the place yesterday. All that shouting and pointing only flatters to deceive. Anthony S and Sido or Max M next week a must. Big test of Gaz's flexibility.
Stewart and Jombati for me all day long.
If we are going to have three up front why not have two fast players either side of Bayo? Is there something I am missing? Freeman showed the value of that yesterday and harriman can cross...in the absence of Tyson and PCH...if he wasn't going to use CMS he should have taken a risk in my opinion. Freeman Harriman and Bayo with Sido at RB and Muller in the middle. Hayes is only ever going to be a straight replacement for Bayo these days as out wide he's got nothing, but might pose a threat as a target man. (Admittedly there is a reason I'm not a football manager, but I would have started CMS and subbed him if he was not up to it, rather than wasting a place on Hayesy...)
El-Abd has yet to win me over my choice would be Stewart and MM.
We could have won it yesterday but in a strange game it's easy to forget we were bossing a majority of the second half however our atrocious start and two jaw dropping giveaway goals wipe the memory
I'm really hoping that Max comes good and we can become a better team for playing it out from the back, but I'm not holding my breath as I have yet to dust off the Life Insurance policies!
The team sheet was worrying from the off. How are Saunders, Tyson and Paris all injured at the same time for goodness sake. That's the whole creative output, meaning we were limited more than even normal to pumping it to Bayo.
Freeman needs to start if either of both widemen are out again. No point keeping him around if he still doesn't start in that context
ps apologies this was a thread about centre backs! Stewart in asap - absolute no brainer. El Abd needs benching for a bit. Won't happen. No chance Gareth is benching the captain! Sido will be the fall guy as always.
Stewart and Sido is number one CB combination for me: much more so after yesterday.
To me, what happens next is is a really big test for whether Gareth Ainsworth has a long career ahead of him as a league manager or not. We've conceded eight goals in our first three matches using the same back five - ten in four if you include the cup. Clearly something needs to change.
The question is, do you drop your goalkeeper, who you (almost certainly) gave assurances to that he would be our number one this season when rejecting his permanent move to Cheltenham? A particularly tricky move given that we don't have anyone else in his position - and if we sign a loanee it will have to be of a high enough standard and for a long-enough period to signal there's simply no way back for Brown.
Or do you drop the highly-experienced former international central defender you signed from a higher league on what will probably be a significant wage and immediately installed as captain? Again tricky - especially if assurances of first team football were given to el-Abd as well (as the Shrews manager suggested when he was released). If you drop him this early it raises serious questions over your recruitment strategy this summer - but on the other hand it shows how decisive a leader you can be.
Alternatively, Gareth could chicken out of making a tough decision on either and decide the only change necessary is for Stewart to come in for Jombati. This will provide more stability, with two natural central defenders in those positions and he can argue that this was always the game plan in the summer and needs a chance to see if it solves the issue. But if he does that he's dropping a player that has done barely anything wrong and favouring one who has done little right. That will be noted by the rest of the squad - and I can't believe a volatile personality like Sido will be particularly happy.
If none of those options are palatable to Gareth he could buy time by moving Harriman to midfield, Jombati to right-back and Stewart into central defence. Perhaps in that regard our injury crisis among our wide forwards helps Ainsworth out - but it doesn't solve the issue and one more bad defensive performance raises the same questions all over again.
If I were him I would go for the final option - one a few have advocated on here. Drop el-Abd and Jombati and replace them with Stewart and Muller. By dropping both it sweetens the pill a little for each of them - neither are being singled out individually for the goals conceded, and neither of them know whether they're third or fourth in the pecking order (so both will need to remain on best behaviour). Both Stewart and Muller are natural centre backs, both tall, both can play the ball out. Hopefully that will solve the problem - though if it doesn't a loan move to cover a conveniently long-term injured Brown (or at least that's what the tweet will say) might be necessary in a few weeks time.
Handle this well and keep the squad happy and Gareth Ainsworth will have shown he has the dexterity to deal sensitively but successfully with a festering issue that could do the club real damage if not dealt with. I'm sure it's the sort of thing that will be noted by prospective employers in the future.
@aloysius - Is your preferred option of a new central defensive partnership going to restore Brown's confidence?
Although it has been discussed many times before, I feel that we now have to sign another keeper, not necessarily to replace Brown, but to give him some competition. If we do nothing before the window closes and Brown's performances deteriorate further we have no realistic replacement until January.
Really excellent post @aloysius.
@mooneyman I'd say yes - if the Stewart-Muller combo are better at policing the six-yard box than el Abd-Jombati, giving Brown more confidence in staying on his line. We always criticised Ingram for not coming for crosses - but his failings in this area were masked by having Pierre and Mawson in front of him to whack most of them out.
If we were to sign a second keeper - which I also agree with - it would be a kid at the beginning of his career, probably on peanuts. Dropping Brown for the guy we had on trial over the summer, for example, would also be a massive call. I'm sure if a new keeper is needed a few weeks in Brown will readily agree to it being announced he's injured - it gives us the ability to access the loan market while protecting his reputation a little ahead of a summer move.
@floyd - merci beaucoup!
I think it is an absolute certainty that El-Abd and Stewart will start together if both are fit. They are (presumably) GAs first choice centre backs and he would hope and expect that they gel together. It seems perverse to not try this combination as early as possible but if after 4 or 5 games we are still struggling I would then look at trying out other options (GA may be more stubborn).
I can't say that El-Abd fills me with confidence though.
Ditto Brown at the moment, but I think we'll have to get used to him until January at least.
On the plus side we should see plenty of goals over the next few weeks