Plymouth are a strong side built to soak up pressure and counter-attack. They have a very good record away.
Obviously it is much to their advantage that their manager does walk on water and turn water into wine. Despite the handicap of having probably the highest budget in the league, he has achieved the magnificent effort of being second. If only more such miracle workers were available rather than mere mortals like our Gareth......
Bayo has an excellent record against Argyle and bullied them on Boxing Day. Season shows that we get better results with 433 than 442, so go that way, hoof it to Bayo (possibly with PCH and Weston supporting) and see what happens.
Plymouth favourites for me (don't understand bookies odds having us as favourites) but would be nice to take them down.
If we play the 4-3-3 formation from Saturday with the same players we won't get anything. 4-3-3 works fine with Kashket and PCH off Bayo but not with Southwell. The squad cries out for 4-4-2 with wingers knocking in balls to Bayo and Southwell or AN Other picking up the pieces. This aimless hoofball garbage is the reason we had such a poor start to the season. With the right players a direct style works, GA needs to pick the players for the formation not just have a formation regardless.
@Chris Any chance of letting us know your opinion rather than just glib comments about others posts? I'm not sure they'd pass the admin rules for the site to be honest
Have to agree with @TheAndyGrahamFanClub Plyouth have better players than Blackpool and we need to have someone else up front with Bayo...not least because he usually has two defenders hanging round his neck...
@Right_in_the_Middle What is it you would like my opinion on? I'd be happy to tell you.
In this case, I was suggesting that Derek Adams turns wine into water - I was agreeing with Dev that he has consistently failed to achieve anything with the resources that Plymouth have available.
Trust the professional manager to come up with the best formation to suit the players available over the herd mentality advocating Ryan Sellers to start, WDH to play ahead of Pierre, Brown ahead of Blackman, cant quite make their mind up whether Southwell is Messi or Dogshite (but to be clear nowhere in between) and are convinced that the formation that failed so abjectly two games ago is plainly the right one now.
Plymouth are more likely to win regardless of formation, but play the formation with the best record to give the best chance.
Do you actually come to the home games DevC? If you did, and you had an ounce of football knowledge, then you would be able to see that we easily get overrun in midfield with the way we play the 4-3-3 formation.
Every away team turns up with 4 or even 5 in midfield and we simply do not cope. 4-4-2 would allow us to play another striker alongside Bayo and maybe even get Saunders into a central midfield role.
Widen the pitch and play 4-4-2 with wide men or wing-backs bombing down the wings, getting behind their defence, turning them and supplying crosses for Bayo.
At the moment we simply by-pass midfield and play hoof-ball at every opportunity.
Come to Adams Park and see it for yourself Dev?
I've seen us playing 4-4-2 this month and unfortunately it didn't result in us bombing down the wings, getting behind the defence, turning them or supplying crosses for Bayo.
There isn't a silver bullet, it isn't as simple as just playing 4-4-2 and we win.
That doesn't mean we can't try things (and of course Ainsworth did attempt 4-4-2) but just asserting that 4-4-2 is the answer doesn't make it true. As Dev says, we are likely to struggle against Plymouth no matter what formation we play.
@Blue_since_1990 That's not fair. Even Dev shouldn't be made to watch us at Adams Park. (I'm personally convinced its just a conspiracy to make us drink more beer beforehand to be able to face it)
@DevC I was, sadly, joking. Something needs to change Dev...I have more time for GA than some on here perhaps...but I sit in the Beechdean not far from the dug-outs and it seems to me when things are patently not working, changes are slow to come and often to late to make a difference. 4 - 3 - 3 with Southwell on the wing does not work or at least did not work on Saturday when we were saved by some dogged defending and a brilliant save. 4 - 4 - 2 might. As @Blue_since_1990 points out we have great players in midfield who hardly touch the ball...which begs the question why buy/play wide players and make them stay in the middle...and why buy midfield ball players and have people hoof the ball from keeper to enormous front man. I realise that we need players to deal with a wide range of opposition teams but increasingly we seem to have only one plan and if Bayo gets a serious injury...The Spurs game will be our best memory of this season.
I have sadly been around long enough to have heard all the silver bullets on many occasions and to have many times heard the plaintive cry of the lesser spotted chairboy fan on an indifferent run - 442 442. Yet oddly when 442 is tried, it doesn't improve things, Grimsby away just 10 days ago being the case in point.
Best chance against Plymouth, play to strengths, which is hoof it to Bayo.
The spurs game will very likely be our best memory of this (and possibly a number of seasons to come). We are a lg2 low budget side. Why would you expect any better?
Chris, Ainsworth tried 4-4-2 for just 45 minutes and he has tried 4-3-3 for 2 seasons at least and that doesn't work. I also believe that whatever formation we play, the manager needs to encourage the players to express themselves and get the ball down and play. I fear the opposite is practised with GA applauding centre-backs and the goalkeeper for simply finding touch deep in the opposition half (worth applauding in rugby union maybe).
Last two seasons we have flirted with play-offs and had our second best ever cup run all with a budget that should place us close if not in the relegation battle. In what way is it correct to say "that doesn't work"
I disagree with each point you've made. 4-3-3 has worked this season, we just happen to have at least one and arguably two of our first choice front three out injured.
Getting the football down and playing might be better to watch (I'm not sure why though, I don't necessarily find passing and possession football better to watch than a good long ball to Bayo) but is far from guaranteed to end up with better results.
I've not seen him applaud any kicks straight into touch. Have you?
I can see that I have upset you in some way @DevC old chap and apologise for forcing you to curse. I was not suggesting that one way is best...or a silver bullet (@Chris) but I felt 4 3 3 was not working at the weekend with the players we had at our disposal and perhaps it could have been tweaked slightly at some point? I am not sure that it was...and I think we risked Bayo by keeping him on. If we win tomorrow night by a single goal from a wind-assisted Jamal Blackman clearance, I will be happy.
It seems to me that when you never go to games it must be the easiest thing in the world to point at our budget and say "there you go, we're doing well not to be in the relegation zone"
I would suggest that if you never go to games then you should probably keep out of discussions about how we're playing myself, but freedom of speech and all that eh
You will note Eric, I have made no comment on "how we are playing". Just pointing out the reality that 433 has been more effective than 442 all season, and the reality that we are highly likely to out-perform our budget again this season.
Also worth pointing out that convention wisdom re Sellers, Blackman, WDH and 442 has been spectacularly awry for a while now. I'll trust Ainsworth over the herd.
Maybe you should watch the Wasps Chris. They kick the ball in the air a lot as well. I can't believe you enjoy hoofball better than the glorious passing game. Takes all sorts I guess.
@Wendoverman I'm sure Chris can defend himself, and probably will, but he didn't say he enjoyed hoofball more than the passing game. There've been a few occasions this season when there's been a deep cross into Bayo - often from JJ - which he's either scored from or laid on a goal for others, which have been (IMHO) truly exciting, for the speed with which they can turn the game, and the technique involved both from crosser and crossee(?). Long accurate passing is an important part of the game. Though I'm completely with you on hoofball - and I agree we've seen a bit too much of that and probably will again with Pierre back in the side.
Here's a thought experiment for those advocating we stick to a 433 because it's what brought us wins mid-season. Do you honestly think that if we had been playing a 442 during that period, with Akinfenwa and Kashket up front and two from Weston, PCH, Thompson and Wood on the wings, with O'Nien and Gape in central midfield, we wouldn't have won so many matches?
I think we would have, potentially with better scorelines. It's the system that works best with the players we have, especially when you're forced to substitute Southwell for Kashket and now have the luxury of subbing Saunders for Gape.
There's no reason why overlapping full-backs and wingers playing in their natural position would not have got even more crosses into the box for Akinfenwa to either convert himself or knock down to his strike partner. Plus you also have the option of through balls from the midfield for that partner to run on to.
It just seems blindingly obvious to me, and I'm not sure a poor 45 minutes in bad conditions at Grimsby provides a watertight argument in favour of sticking to 433.
Comments
We'll win tomorrow
Not when we are playing a team managed by the best manager outside the Premier League!
Can't disagree with the scoreline prediction sadly.
Plymouth are a strong side built to soak up pressure and counter-attack. They have a very good record away.
Obviously it is much to their advantage that their manager does walk on water and turn water into wine. Despite the handicap of having probably the highest budget in the league, he has achieved the magnificent effort of being second. If only more such miracle workers were available rather than mere mortals like our Gareth......
Bayo has an excellent record against Argyle and bullied them on Boxing Day. Season shows that we get better results with 433 than 442, so go that way, hoof it to Bayo (possibly with PCH and Weston supporting) and see what happens.
Plymouth favourites for me (don't understand bookies odds having us as favourites) but would be nice to take them down.
If we play the 4-3-3 formation from Saturday with the same players we won't get anything. 4-3-3 works fine with Kashket and PCH off Bayo but not with Southwell. The squad cries out for 4-4-2 with wingers knocking in balls to Bayo and Southwell or AN Other picking up the pieces. This aimless hoofball garbage is the reason we had such a poor start to the season. With the right players a direct style works, GA needs to pick the players for the formation not just have a formation regardless.
Turns wine into water.
@Chris Any chance of letting us know your opinion rather than just glib comments about others posts? I'm not sure they'd pass the admin rules for the site to be honest
Have to agree with @TheAndyGrahamFanClub Plyouth have better players than Blackpool and we need to have someone else up front with Bayo...not least because he usually has two defenders hanging round his neck...
Totally agree with AndyGrahamFC. 4-4-2 Ainsworth!!!!!
@Right_in_the_Middle What is it you would like my opinion on? I'd be happy to tell you.
In this case, I was suggesting that Derek Adams turns wine into water - I was agreeing with Dev that he has consistently failed to achieve anything with the resources that Plymouth have available.
How well did 442 work at Grimsby? And 433 in the second half?
How well did 442 work at the start of the season? And 433 in the middle?
You're right @DevC don't change anything Gareth...
I agree Wendover.
Trust the professional manager to come up with the best formation to suit the players available over the herd mentality advocating Ryan Sellers to start, WDH to play ahead of Pierre, Brown ahead of Blackman, cant quite make their mind up whether Southwell is Messi or Dogshite (but to be clear nowhere in between) and are convinced that the formation that failed so abjectly two games ago is plainly the right one now.
Plymouth are more likely to win regardless of formation, but play the formation with the best record to give the best chance.
Do you actually come to the home games DevC? If you did, and you had an ounce of football knowledge, then you would be able to see that we easily get overrun in midfield with the way we play the 4-3-3 formation.
Every away team turns up with 4 or even 5 in midfield and we simply do not cope. 4-4-2 would allow us to play another striker alongside Bayo and maybe even get Saunders into a central midfield role.
Widen the pitch and play 4-4-2 with wide men or wing-backs bombing down the wings, getting behind their defence, turning them and supplying crosses for Bayo.
At the moment we simply by-pass midfield and play hoof-ball at every opportunity.
Come to Adams Park and see it for yourself Dev?
I've seen us playing 4-4-2 this month and unfortunately it didn't result in us bombing down the wings, getting behind the defence, turning them or supplying crosses for Bayo.
There isn't a silver bullet, it isn't as simple as just playing 4-4-2 and we win.
That doesn't mean we can't try things (and of course Ainsworth did attempt 4-4-2) but just asserting that 4-4-2 is the answer doesn't make it true. As Dev says, we are likely to struggle against Plymouth no matter what formation we play.
@Blue_since_1990 That's not fair. Even Dev shouldn't be made to watch us at Adams Park. (I'm personally convinced its just a conspiracy to make us drink more beer beforehand to be able to face it)
Hahaha, brilliant booker.
@DevC I was, sadly, joking. Something needs to change Dev...I have more time for GA than some on here perhaps...but I sit in the Beechdean not far from the dug-outs and it seems to me when things are patently not working, changes are slow to come and often to late to make a difference. 4 - 3 - 3 with Southwell on the wing does not work or at least did not work on Saturday when we were saved by some dogged defending and a brilliant save. 4 - 4 - 2 might. As @Blue_since_1990 points out we have great players in midfield who hardly touch the ball...which begs the question why buy/play wide players and make them stay in the middle...and why buy midfield ball players and have people hoof the ball from keeper to enormous front man. I realise that we need players to deal with a wide range of opposition teams but increasingly we seem to have only one plan and if Bayo gets a serious injury...The Spurs game will be our best memory of this season.
No shit Sherlock.
I have sadly been around long enough to have heard all the silver bullets on many occasions and to have many times heard the plaintive cry of the lesser spotted chairboy fan on an indifferent run - 442 442. Yet oddly when 442 is tried, it doesn't improve things, Grimsby away just 10 days ago being the case in point.
Best chance against Plymouth, play to strengths, which is hoof it to Bayo.
The spurs game will very likely be our best memory of this (and possibly a number of seasons to come). We are a lg2 low budget side. Why would you expect any better?
Chris, Ainsworth tried 4-4-2 for just 45 minutes and he has tried 4-3-3 for 2 seasons at least and that doesn't work. I also believe that whatever formation we play, the manager needs to encourage the players to express themselves and get the ball down and play. I fear the opposite is practised with GA applauding centre-backs and the goalkeeper for simply finding touch deep in the opposition half (worth applauding in rugby union maybe).
Last two seasons we have flirted with play-offs and had our second best ever cup run all with a budget that should place us close if not in the relegation battle. In what way is it correct to say "that doesn't work"
I disagree with each point you've made. 4-3-3 has worked this season, we just happen to have at least one and arguably two of our first choice front three out injured.
Getting the football down and playing might be better to watch (I'm not sure why though, I don't necessarily find passing and possession football better to watch than a good long ball to Bayo) but is far from guaranteed to end up with better results.
I've not seen him applaud any kicks straight into touch. Have you?
I can see that I have upset you in some way @DevC old chap and apologise for forcing you to curse. I was not suggesting that one way is best...or a silver bullet (@Chris) but I felt 4 3 3 was not working at the weekend with the players we had at our disposal and perhaps it could have been tweaked slightly at some point? I am not sure that it was...and I think we risked Bayo by keeping him on. If we win tomorrow night by a single goal from a wind-assisted Jamal Blackman clearance, I will be happy.
Not in the least dear boy.
Ditto last sentence.
It seems to me that when you never go to games it must be the easiest thing in the world to point at our budget and say "there you go, we're doing well not to be in the relegation zone"
I would suggest that if you never go to games then you should probably keep out of discussions about how we're playing myself, but freedom of speech and all that eh
You will note Eric, I have made no comment on "how we are playing". Just pointing out the reality that 433 has been more effective than 442 all season, and the reality that we are highly likely to out-perform our budget again this season.
Also worth pointing out that convention wisdom re Sellers, Blackman, WDH and 442 has been spectacularly awry for a while now. I'll trust Ainsworth over the herd.
Maybe you should watch the Wasps Chris. They kick the ball in the air a lot as well. I can't believe you enjoy hoofball better than the glorious passing game. Takes all sorts I guess.
@Wendoverman I'm sure Chris can defend himself, and probably will, but he didn't say he enjoyed hoofball more than the passing game. There've been a few occasions this season when there's been a deep cross into Bayo - often from JJ - which he's either scored from or laid on a goal for others, which have been (IMHO) truly exciting, for the speed with which they can turn the game, and the technique involved both from crosser and crossee(?). Long accurate passing is an important part of the game. Though I'm completely with you on hoofball - and I agree we've seen a bit too much of that and probably will again with Pierre back in the side.
Here's a thought experiment for those advocating we stick to a 433 because it's what brought us wins mid-season. Do you honestly think that if we had been playing a 442 during that period, with Akinfenwa and Kashket up front and two from Weston, PCH, Thompson and Wood on the wings, with O'Nien and Gape in central midfield, we wouldn't have won so many matches?
I think we would have, potentially with better scorelines. It's the system that works best with the players we have, especially when you're forced to substitute Southwell for Kashket and now have the luxury of subbing Saunders for Gape.
There's no reason why overlapping full-backs and wingers playing in their natural position would not have got even more crosses into the box for Akinfenwa to either convert himself or knock down to his strike partner. Plus you also have the option of through balls from the midfield for that partner to run on to.
It just seems blindingly obvious to me, and I'm not sure a poor 45 minutes in bad conditions at Grimsby provides a watertight argument in favour of sticking to 433.
@Wig_and_Pen I think you got me mixed up with someone else @Blue_since_1990 perhaps? I would never pull @Chris up....he might ban me.