Seriously though, whatever points total AH and GA agree between themselves, then surely this time it must remain private between those two, and used at the end of the season by AH to assess GA's performance.
I strongly disagree with an objective of reaching 61 points total or even aiming for the play-offs.
The only objective should be to win League Two! As in life, you should always aim for the highest. Even if you don't quite achieve it you'll always end up higher up if you take this attitude. Especially with footballers and a squad of players the aim of the club from top to bottom should be to win the league.
Inevitably there'll be wobbles but clearly defined objectives are easier to work towards than vague concepts like "61 points". If you're involved in any competitive sport you have to aim to win. At the end of the season you can look back, even if you fail to get top place, but at least you can say "At least we gave it a go!".
There are objectives and there are objectives. Obviously we should aim to win every game, but the season isn't a failure if we don't manage that. But if you set a realistic objective and we don't reach that then the season has quantifiably been a failure and you've got good reason to change the management.
I always think of the public display of points target is like Championship Manager 2006. You say to the chairman you target is to win the league you get Budget A, Playoff = Budget B, Survival = Budget C. I wonder if AH and GA are doing exactly this.
If GA chooses envelope A and delivers C what would be the consequence. He could always reload the season and start again.
Setting a points target may work if it is combined with a bonus to the players for every point in excess of the target thus maintaining their incentive. The argument against that is the club may not be able to afford the extra money so the management are likely to have a corresponding disincentive!
Following the play-off defeat to Southend United last May, Gareth Ainsworth said:
"We are ahead of the plan and as long as we stay ahead of the plan we will be fine. We have a five-year plan and we are well ahead of it in year one on the pitch. The plan [season 2014/15] was to survive – 55 points – turn the ship around and head in the right direction. The ship has turned around. Play-offs was in year three of the plan not year one. Now it is about the expectation in year two. We were aiming for the play-offs and promotion in year three not year one.”
Reasonably confident that next season eleven players will go onto the pitch for each game trying to win. The five year plan seems to have rapidly gained far more importance on this forum than at the club. Wont be long before someone claims that we deliberately conceded a last minute goal at Wembley because we didn't plan to win.
Its just a plan. Like most long term plans, events will conspire to make them redundant long before year five. I am always sceptical about their worth.
For example I don't see anything that has materially changed since the start of last season. Crowds (or at least season tickets) are broadly the same, commercial income would appear to be broadly the same, no reason to believe the playing budget compared to our opponents will be different. As such I see no reason why we would plan or expect to do better this season than we planned or expected to do last season at the same time UNLESS something major happens over the summer, eg a major receipt say from an Ibe sale that allows the budget to be increased.
Personally I hope for automatic promotion but see it as very unlikely. If not I hope for playoffs but see that as fairly unlikely. I would be reasonably happy with another midtable performance coupled with a few more goals.
When the spreads come out for season points I would sell at 64 if offered and buy at 57 if offered. I would expect the spread to be around 61.
I suspect if we do not make the play-offs at the very least...GA will be on his way. After two close brushes with play-offs, we should be aiming for automatic promotion...but we need a couple of decent signings cough (striker!) if we are to push on from last year.
If you are suggesting that GA should be sacked if we finish eighth next season and be under serious threat if we finish fourth, the world has gone even more mad than I realised.
Of course we should be AIMING for automatic promotion. There is no reason why we should EXPECT or DEMAND it.
I completely agree @DevC both in terms of the value of a five year plan (what is the driver for the improvement year on year?) and the expectations (and hopes) for next season.
Calm yourself, @DevC If that's to me I'm not suggesting he should be sacked at all. I reckon he'll move on of his own accord if we don't get a sniff of promotion next season five year plan or not.
@DevC I agree with your premise that if nothing has materially changed we should not expect anything different. If I understand the financial aspects of the 5-year plan correctly, however, something should have materially changed: the club's debt should have been reduced, year-on-year. This should mean that more can be spent in each consecutive year and the targets and expectations raised accordingly.
Does anyone feel that they're setting themselves up for a bit of a fall this season coming?
We've got away with the exceeding expectations, punching above our weight business, but now, year 3, is playoffs.
Yes we hit the year 3 target in year 1, but we slipped off that massively in the last bit of last season, and need a fair bit of a rethink.
Who can forget the massive lift 2 years ago, when we out of nowhere signed Hayes and Pierre, 2 quality players none of us believed we could get, pretty much right after the season finished.
As I recall we occupied a playoff spot three games or so from end of season - feels like a close brush to me.
Apols if I misinterpreted you Wendover. TBH I would have thought GA would have had much better chance of personal progression if we at least reached the playoffs. Not sure how much market there would be, fairly or not, for a manager of a mid table Lg2 side.
@DevC come on. We finished 13th. A dozen points behind the play off spot. You can say we were close but the table doesn't lie. We were really fortunate that when our form sucked a number of other clubs were falling over themselves to not win as well. How many Saturdays (or even Tuesdays) did we fail to win and not move in the table as other teams failed to win too? In the end some clubs got some form together for the last six weeks of the season and pushed above us as we were high-fiving our 61 points. It just felt like we gave up the 2015/6 season in March even though we had a great chance to achieve more.
@A_Worboys totally agree. If you aim for 100% you may not get 100% but you can get anything up to 100%. If you aim for 60% you are unlikely to getting anything above that. As you say, it's like most things in life.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub we had a terrible fall off...tis absolutely true...but when we reached 61 points, we were still in the running. Unfortunately, when GA unleashed the team...they failed to leash...
Comments
I believe play off this year?
Think that was it, I wonder what a suitable points target will be to reach them this season?
62 points!
Surely 67 just short of playoffs
Seriously though, whatever points total AH and GA agree between themselves, then surely this time it must remain private between those two, and used at the end of the season by AH to assess GA's performance.
I strongly disagree with an objective of reaching 61 points total or even aiming for the play-offs.
The only objective should be to win League Two! As in life, you should always aim for the highest. Even if you don't quite achieve it you'll always end up higher up if you take this attitude. Especially with footballers and a squad of players the aim of the club from top to bottom should be to win the league.
Inevitably there'll be wobbles but clearly defined objectives are easier to work towards than vague concepts like "61 points". If you're involved in any competitive sport you have to aim to win. At the end of the season you can look back, even if you fail to get top place, but at least you can say "At least we gave it a go!".
There are objectives and there are objectives. Obviously we should aim to win every game, but the season isn't a failure if we don't manage that. But if you set a realistic objective and we don't reach that then the season has quantifiably been a failure and you've got good reason to change the management.
I always think of the public display of points target is like Championship Manager 2006. You say to the chairman you target is to win the league you get Budget A, Playoff = Budget B, Survival = Budget C. I wonder if AH and GA are doing exactly this.
If GA chooses envelope A and delivers C what would be the consequence. He could always reload the season and start again.
Setting a points target may work if it is combined with a bonus to the players for every point in excess of the target thus maintaining their incentive. The argument against that is the club may not be able to afford the extra money so the management are likely to have a corresponding disincentive!
Our target for 2016/17 is to reach the play-offs.
Following the play-off defeat to Southend United last May, Gareth Ainsworth said:
"We are ahead of the plan and as long as we stay ahead of the plan we will be fine. We have a five-year plan and we are well ahead of it in year one on the pitch. The plan [season 2014/15] was to survive – 55 points – turn the ship around and head in the right direction. The ship has turned around. Play-offs was in year three of the plan not year one. Now it is about the expectation in year two. We were aiming for the play-offs and promotion in year three not year one.”
Source: http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/12968942.display/
Reasonably confident that next season eleven players will go onto the pitch for each game trying to win. The five year plan seems to have rapidly gained far more importance on this forum than at the club. Wont be long before someone claims that we deliberately conceded a last minute goal at Wembley because we didn't plan to win.
Its just a plan. Like most long term plans, events will conspire to make them redundant long before year five. I am always sceptical about their worth.
For example I don't see anything that has materially changed since the start of last season. Crowds (or at least season tickets) are broadly the same, commercial income would appear to be broadly the same, no reason to believe the playing budget compared to our opponents will be different. As such I see no reason why we would plan or expect to do better this season than we planned or expected to do last season at the same time UNLESS something major happens over the summer, eg a major receipt say from an Ibe sale that allows the budget to be increased.
Personally I hope for automatic promotion but see it as very unlikely. If not I hope for playoffs but see that as fairly unlikely. I would be reasonably happy with another midtable performance coupled with a few more goals.
When the spreads come out for season points I would sell at 64 if offered and buy at 57 if offered. I would expect the spread to be around 61.
I suspect if we do not make the play-offs at the very least...GA will be on his way. After two close brushes with play-offs, we should be aiming for automatic promotion...but we need a couple of decent signings cough (striker!) if we are to push on from last year.
If you are suggesting that GA should be sacked if we finish eighth next season and be under serious threat if we finish fourth, the world has gone even more mad than I realised.
Of course we should be AIMING for automatic promotion. There is no reason why we should EXPECT or DEMAND it.
I completely agree @DevC both in terms of the value of a five year plan (what is the driver for the improvement year on year?) and the expectations (and hopes) for next season.
Calm yourself, @DevC If that's to me I'm not suggesting he should be sacked at all. I reckon he'll move on of his own accord if we don't get a sniff of promotion next season five year plan or not.
@DevC I agree with your premise that if nothing has materially changed we should not expect anything different. If I understand the financial aspects of the 5-year plan correctly, however, something should have materially changed: the club's debt should have been reduced, year-on-year. This should mean that more can be spent in each consecutive year and the targets and expectations raised accordingly.
The debt payments remain the same until the debt is paid off, I believe.
@Wendoverman Two close brushes with the play-offs? Surely you mean one? Last season we finished 13th no where near the play-offs.
Does anyone feel that they're setting themselves up for a bit of a fall this season coming?
We've got away with the exceeding expectations, punching above our weight business, but now, year 3, is playoffs.
Yes we hit the year 3 target in year 1, but we slipped off that massively in the last bit of last season, and need a fair bit of a rethink.
Who can forget the massive lift 2 years ago, when we out of nowhere signed Hayes and Pierre, 2 quality players none of us believed we could get, pretty much right after the season finished.
Then the likes of Jombati and Jacobsen followed.
Maybe even before the date we're sat on now..
All to do this summer.
As I recall we occupied a playoff spot three games or so from end of season - feels like a close brush to me.
Apols if I misinterpreted you Wendover. TBH I would have thought GA would have had much better chance of personal progression if we at least reached the playoffs. Not sure how much market there would be, fairly or not, for a manager of a mid table Lg2 side.
@DevC come on. We finished 13th. A dozen points behind the play off spot. You can say we were close but the table doesn't lie. We were really fortunate that when our form sucked a number of other clubs were falling over themselves to not win as well. How many Saturdays (or even Tuesdays) did we fail to win and not move in the table as other teams failed to win too? In the end some clubs got some form together for the last six weeks of the season and pushed above us as we were high-fiving our 61 points. It just felt like we gave up the 2015/6 season in March even though we had a great chance to achieve more.
@A_Worboys totally agree. If you aim for 100% you may not get 100% but you can get anything up to 100%. If you aim for 60% you are unlikely to getting anything above that. As you say, it's like most things in life.
In the season before last we aimed for 50 something points and we were 20 seconds from promotion, so that doesn't always apply.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub we had a terrible fall off...tis absolutely true...but when we reached 61 points, we were still in the running. Unfortunately, when GA unleashed the team...they failed to leash...