As yourself and others have described I don't think it has to be both, it's reckless and if the angle had been less generous, maybe a stud had been planted or he was near an advertising board he could have been badly injured, that's enough for a red. Once you lunge in from so far out it's all a gamble and the force would be considered excessive because it wasn't necessary. He must have had a tiny percentage chance of making the tackle from that angle.
Lot of time for shev btw and hope we see him back soon, on reflection he might have been leaning towards repeatedly baiting those who he clearly didn't agree with, his choice , and by no means alone in that but it doesn't then make for good discussions.
I spoke to a Birmingham fan in the pub afterwards, and then two more at New Street. None of them thought it was a red card. A friend of mine watching on TV (Lincoln fan) also texted to say that it was never a red card. None of the people I was at the game with thought it was a red card when we watched a replay on the concourse screens at half time (including me). I am still yet to chat in-person to someone who thought it was a red
We were far to respectful to them first half. So slow at the back, far to many touches we simply invited them to win the ball in horrendously dangerous areas.
Second half, I think if we'd have played like that in the first half, we go in at the break at least level.
We looked so much better in the second. Reach looks fantastic so whilst it's a shitter losing Harvie, I'm more than confident in Reach stepping up.
I would have taken being 2 points ahead of Wrexham before a ball was kicked yesterday.
Big display on Tuesday and this weekend will be a distant memory.
I don’t agree that is excessive force. That’s where the argument is. I don’t think there is any argument with the law, just we are disagreeing as to what is excessive force.
If he had won that ball it would have been hailed as a fantastic tackle.
As I mentioned earlier, the words excessive, reckless and dangerous are subjective and not every referee would have deemed that challenge a red card despite the wording of the law on fouls. We just happened to have a referee who thought it ticked at least one of those boxes. I think it came under the heading of ‘looked worse than it was’, exacerbated by Laird’s obvious overreaction.
I’m a Birmingham fan and I come in peace! Firstly I think it was a penalty (obviously 😊), but Laird’s dramatic and unnessesary rolling over and over was an embarrassment.
As for the game, we did our usual by failing to capitalise on our spells of domination, and based on your gritty much improved second half performance I think you possibly did enough to deserve a point from the game.
Good luck for the rest of the season. You’ve been a thorn in our side with your impressive results and performances, and a surprise to the rest of the division I think. And if you don’t go up now it will be a travesty. Keep the faith and hopefully we will see you in the Championship.
I think Birmingham have a squad right now that is good enough to be competitive in the Championship and I’m sure with the right recruitment in the summer they could be a force next season, especially with such fanatical support. They have some outstanding players and a good coach, reminds me of Ipswich a couple of years ago.
Ought to acknowledge kind intervention of two Birmingham City fans on our arrival by car yesterday about to park in nearby Bolton St on recommendation of a Birmingham-based contact. We had noted quite a bit of broken glass and they warned it showed what would happen if we left our car there. They directed us to some secure parking very close to the ground. Just £5 and like AP took 45 mins to leave, but car intact.
Found Birmingham fans in the ground a bit obnoxious. But outside the ground, they couldn’t have been friendlier or more welcoming. Aside from the result it was a good day out.
There were rumours in the stand that a Wycombe fan got jumped on by a large amount of locals outside the stadium before the game. Does anyone know if they are OK?
I would say with the exception of the bloke directly behind us very near the front whose entire vocabulary seemed to consist of the words f**k, c***, pedo and pr**k or variations or combinations thereof and didn't let up until he and his somewhat less obnoxious mates decided to leave on 85 minutes. So much for his passion for Wycombe.
That group was in the row directly behind us. One man in particular behaved appallingly, and we all agreed that he was most likely coked up. I couldn't believe they left so early when it was clear that there'd be lots of added time and we were threatening an equaliser.
They spent the whole game moaning about being asked to sit down, and shouting abuse at other fans around them. Most of their conversation consisted of how many beers they were going to drink afterwards
So having had some sleep and less beer I thought I give my summary/thoughts on yesterday.
Got the 9.02 "Football Special" and easily able to get a seat and enjoyed the trip in the sunshine watching the flooded countryside of Oxfordshire whizz by. A few folks we know were worried about the 9.02 potentially being too crowded and so took the standard 8.36 to Brum and ended up standing the whole way.....we laughed.
Got to Brum and found the Dragon pub, think it was a spoons, ok but a little annoyed at the lack of ale choice (Grrrr) but had a couple of pints of the guest ale before getting an uber to the ground for the massive fair of £3.21....
Through security and into the ground no problem, hadn't been to St Andrews before, nice ground even if the away concourse felt a little like a prison of sorts and was pretty dark.
I was sat about five rows from the front and as one poster remarked the acoustics were weird as our lot didn't seem that loud from where I was. Having fun and banter with the Brum fans nearest us and did laugh at the idiot Wycombe lad getting ejected really early doors....need to grow up and calm down a bit fella.
First half we were shocking, either set up wrong or overawed (?) but credit to Brum they had the high press spot on. As for the red, I said to my mate as I saw Simons going full pelt towards Laird "if he doesn't get the ball and catches him at all he's off" and unfortunately my words were prophetic. Have seen those given as yellow but not when you have 25k Brum supporters in their home stad shouting red, was inevitable I'm afraid..
Second half MUCH better, even though I still cringe when 3 at the back gets mentioned due to the early days of Blooms but it worked well and thought Bradley did a great job of steadying things and allowed us to move forward more. I want to see more of Reach as thought he was excellent when coming on and depending on how bad Harvie's knock is I guess he'll start Tuesday.
Walked back to Moor Street post game in the sunshine and chatted to a few Brum who I found to be friendly and pretty complimentary about Wycombe, which was nice. Got the "Football Special" back to Wycombe and then into the Flint for a few, although they too had no ales (grrrr) and watched the blue lights of the many police cars at the train station as I guess the next train down from Brum had some sort of fighting between fans incident when on approach to Wycombe...oh and watching Plymouth go 1 up again cittah (missed the rest of the game as 1. no interest and 2. got a kebab and went home).
No major crisis for me, but we MUST win Tuesday and Saturday to tee the Wrexham game up nicely, shame about potential loss of Simons and Harvie though....and (another all caps incoming) MUST start Kone, get a good lead and then take him off to rest.
Apologies for the massive post but we're still second so onwards and upwards and 3 points Tuesday.
Time will tell if the red card was deserved or not. If it doesn't get overturned it would be nice to have an explanation.
Another explanation in refereeing should be required for the Kone booking. If that was an elbow, by the standards that had been set by the ref, why was that only a yellow card?
Spoke with a Brum fan after the game and he asked what we thought of Dodds (because he is ex Brum). His opinion matched mine, tactically he is obviously well thought of, but in the media he comes across so inexperienced. The way he sways and touches his face in interviews would suggest he is not comfortable. Time will heal that, and time will tell if he is the right man.
He got everything right yesterday - the only thing I would maybe have done differently is started Grimmer in a game like that, and brought McCleary off instead of Fred (who looked our most lively outlet).
We had two ‘lads’ next to us standing on the steps throughout most of the first half who didn’t see a moment of play as they spent the whole time pointing provocatively at various home fans. Why would anyone choose to pay good money just to do that?
Surprised that the stewards made no effort to keep the stairs clear.
Felt for the old boy a few rows down who was clearly unable to stand for long and whose view was completely obscured by uncaring ‘lads’ who refused to sit.
That’s exactly why I’ve stopped going to away games. Getting on now and struggle to stand for the whole game and far too many times over the last few years those who refuse to sit down block the view for everyone else and don’t give a flying fu*k. It’s always those between 18 and 30, often too much drink or drugs on board. Roll in late as well after the statutory visit to the pub. Shame really - been going since 93 and had totted up 88 grounds at the last count.
I took the 1875 free shuttle bus from New Street to the ground, but after the game I had enough time for a leisurely walk back into the city centre. I really enjoyed it (apart from the odd cry of W**ky Wanderers) and was impressed that thousands of others did the same.
Comments
As yourself and others have described I don't think it has to be both, it's reckless and if the angle had been less generous, maybe a stud had been planted or he was near an advertising board he could have been badly injured, that's enough for a red. Once you lunge in from so far out it's all a gamble and the force would be considered excessive because it wasn't necessary. He must have had a tiny percentage chance of making the tackle from that angle.
Lot of time for shev btw and hope we see him back soon, on reflection he might have been leaning towards repeatedly baiting those who he clearly didn't agree with, his choice , and by no means alone in that but it doesn't then make for good discussions.
I spoke to a Birmingham fan in the pub afterwards, and then two more at New Street. None of them thought it was a red card. A friend of mine watching on TV (Lincoln fan) also texted to say that it was never a red card. None of the people I was at the game with thought it was a red card when we watched a replay on the concourse screens at half time (including me). I am still yet to chat in-person to someone who thought it was a red
After sleeping on it...
We were far to respectful to them first half. So slow at the back, far to many touches we simply invited them to win the ball in horrendously dangerous areas.
Second half, I think if we'd have played like that in the first half, we go in at the break at least level.
We looked so much better in the second. Reach looks fantastic so whilst it's a shitter losing Harvie, I'm more than confident in Reach stepping up.
I would have taken being 2 points ahead of Wrexham before a ball was kicked yesterday.
Big display on Tuesday and this weekend will be a distant memory.
I wasn't able to go to the game, but seeing the replay of the Simons red card made me think he's given the ref a decision to make.
You've seen worse tackles only given a yellow, though if it were the other way around we'd have been clamouring for a straight red.
I don’t agree that is excessive force. That’s where the argument is. I don’t think there is any argument with the law, just we are disagreeing as to what is excessive force.
If he had won that ball it would have been hailed as a fantastic tackle.
As I mentioned earlier, the words excessive, reckless and dangerous are subjective and not every referee would have deemed that challenge a red card despite the wording of the law on fouls. We just happened to have a referee who thought it ticked at least one of those boxes. I think it came under the heading of ‘looked worse than it was’, exacerbated by Laird’s obvious overreaction.
Late tackle, lunged in and missed the ball taking out their player while running at full speed half the length of the pitch.
Even with my bluest tint glasses on I think most referees would have given it as a red card.
Can’t really add to what has already been said. They were too good for us first half.
Thought the second half we made a good account of ourselves given we were down to ten men.
Not enough time for Kone to really make an impact, he needs to start on Tuesday.
But what an atmosphere! Each and everyone one of those Chairboys and girls were exceptional. The stand was bouncing, best away game I’ve been too!
Exactly, most but not all. I can see why he gave it, plenty of people thought a yellow would have been more appropriate.
I’m a Birmingham fan and I come in peace! Firstly I think it was a penalty (obviously 😊), but Laird’s dramatic and unnessesary rolling over and over was an embarrassment.
As for the game, we did our usual by failing to capitalise on our spells of domination, and based on your gritty much improved second half performance I think you possibly did enough to deserve a point from the game.
Good luck for the rest of the season. You’ve been a thorn in our side with your impressive results and performances, and a surprise to the rest of the division I think. And if you don’t go up now it will be a travesty. Keep the faith and hopefully we will see you in the Championship.
I think Birmingham have a squad right now that is good enough to be competitive in the Championship and I’m sure with the right recruitment in the summer they could be a force next season, especially with such fanatical support. They have some outstanding players and a good coach, reminds me of Ipswich a couple of years ago.
Ought to acknowledge kind intervention of two Birmingham City fans on our arrival by car yesterday about to park in nearby Bolton St on recommendation of a Birmingham-based contact. We had noted quite a bit of broken glass and they warned it showed what would happen if we left our car there. They directed us to some secure parking very close to the ground. Just £5 and like AP took 45 mins to leave, but car intact.
I must admit Josh Scowen is not averse to a lot of head rubbing and rolling about if required.😉
I thought it was a badly executed rash tackle so I can can see why it was a red card and I don't expect it to be rescinded.
Found Birmingham fans in the ground a bit obnoxious. But outside the ground, they couldn’t have been friendlier or more welcoming. Aside from the result it was a good day out.
The day is always better when I get to see you and your lad @Midlander.
Was lovely how he ran to me at the turnstiles to say hello. Hope he had a great time despite the result.
Likewise mate. Yes Midlander junior had a great day.
There were rumours in the stand that a Wycombe fan got jumped on by a large amount of locals outside the stadium before the game. Does anyone know if they are OK?
I would say with the exception of the bloke directly behind us very near the front whose entire vocabulary seemed to consist of the words f**k, c***, pedo and pr**k or variations or combinations thereof and didn't let up until he and his somewhat less obnoxious mates decided to leave on 85 minutes. So much for his passion for Wycombe.
I had a very similar bloke behind at the Rovers away game. At least your bloke expanded his vocab to include pedo!
I didn't think Birmingham were *that* dangerous
That group was in the row directly behind us. One man in particular behaved appallingly, and we all agreed that he was most likely coked up. I couldn't believe they left so early when it was clear that there'd be lots of added time and we were threatening an equaliser.
They spent the whole game moaning about being asked to sit down, and shouting abuse at other fans around them. Most of their conversation consisted of how many beers they were going to drink afterwards
So having had some sleep and less beer I thought I give my summary/thoughts on yesterday.
Got the 9.02 "Football Special" and easily able to get a seat and enjoyed the trip in the sunshine watching the flooded countryside of Oxfordshire whizz by. A few folks we know were worried about the 9.02 potentially being too crowded and so took the standard 8.36 to Brum and ended up standing the whole way.....we laughed.
Got to Brum and found the Dragon pub, think it was a spoons, ok but a little annoyed at the lack of ale choice (Grrrr) but had a couple of pints of the guest ale before getting an uber to the ground for the massive fair of £3.21....
Through security and into the ground no problem, hadn't been to St Andrews before, nice ground even if the away concourse felt a little like a prison of sorts and was pretty dark.
I was sat about five rows from the front and as one poster remarked the acoustics were weird as our lot didn't seem that loud from where I was. Having fun and banter with the Brum fans nearest us and did laugh at the idiot Wycombe lad getting ejected really early doors....need to grow up and calm down a bit fella.
First half we were shocking, either set up wrong or overawed (?) but credit to Brum they had the high press spot on. As for the red, I said to my mate as I saw Simons going full pelt towards Laird "if he doesn't get the ball and catches him at all he's off" and unfortunately my words were prophetic. Have seen those given as yellow but not when you have 25k Brum supporters in their home stad shouting red, was inevitable I'm afraid..
Second half MUCH better, even though I still cringe when 3 at the back gets mentioned due to the early days of Blooms but it worked well and thought Bradley did a great job of steadying things and allowed us to move forward more. I want to see more of Reach as thought he was excellent when coming on and depending on how bad Harvie's knock is I guess he'll start Tuesday.
Walked back to Moor Street post game in the sunshine and chatted to a few Brum who I found to be friendly and pretty complimentary about Wycombe, which was nice. Got the "Football Special" back to Wycombe and then into the Flint for a few, although they too had no ales (grrrr) and watched the blue lights of the many police cars at the train station as I guess the next train down from Brum had some sort of fighting between fans incident when on approach to Wycombe...oh and watching Plymouth go 1 up again cittah (missed the rest of the game as 1. no interest and 2. got a kebab and went home).
No major crisis for me, but we MUST win Tuesday and Saturday to tee the Wrexham game up nicely, shame about potential loss of Simons and Harvie though....and (another all caps incoming) MUST start Kone, get a good lead and then take him off to rest.
Apologies for the massive post but we're still second so onwards and upwards and 3 points Tuesday.
COYB
Some odd characters about, similar frenzied repeated swear words including calling McCleary a c**t! after about 10 minutes!
Looked to see who it was and it appeared to be the cast of Superbad.
Time will tell if the red card was deserved or not. If it doesn't get overturned it would be nice to have an explanation.
Another explanation in refereeing should be required for the Kone booking. If that was an elbow, by the standards that had been set by the ref, why was that only a yellow card?
Spoke with a Brum fan after the game and he asked what we thought of Dodds (because he is ex Brum). His opinion matched mine, tactically he is obviously well thought of, but in the media he comes across so inexperienced. The way he sways and touches his face in interviews would suggest he is not comfortable. Time will heal that, and time will tell if he is the right man.
He got everything right yesterday - the only thing I would maybe have done differently is started Grimmer in a game like that, and brought McCleary off instead of Fred (who looked our most lively outlet).
We had two ‘lads’ next to us standing on the steps throughout most of the first half who didn’t see a moment of play as they spent the whole time pointing provocatively at various home fans. Why would anyone choose to pay good money just to do that?
Surprised that the stewards made no effort to keep the stairs clear.
Felt for the old boy a few rows down who was clearly unable to stand for long and whose view was completely obscured by uncaring ‘lads’ who refused to sit.
He endangered the safety of his opponent by lunging in from the side in the manor he did it. Red all day
We weren’t playing at Oxford in the 90s
That’s exactly why I’ve stopped going to away games. Getting on now and struggle to stand for the whole game and far too many times over the last few years those who refuse to sit down block the view for everyone else and don’t give a flying fu*k. It’s always those between 18 and 30, often too much drink or drugs on board. Roll in late as well after the statutory visit to the pub. Shame really - been going since 93 and had totted up 88 grounds at the last count.
I took the 1875 free shuttle bus from New Street to the ground, but after the game I had enough time for a leisurely walk back into the city centre. I really enjoyed it (apart from the odd cry of W**ky Wanderers) and was impressed that thousands of others did the same.