Huge chunks of the specials and Madness back catalogue are "borrowed" and cleaned up for British audiences, Prince Buster and others most obviously copied although I gather the same is true of a lot of 50s and 60s rock from the US.
Worth noting that the idea of originality, IP and copyright in Jamaican dancehall and ska was (and still is to a degree) considerably more fluid than it's ever been here. You used to have the concept of a riddim - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddim - typically a bass line, that would be used by many, many different artists to create their own tunes. Probably the most famous example being the Sleng Teng riddim which was used on literally hundreds of songs: https://www.riddimguide.com/tunedb/riddim_Sleng%20Teng/sortby_riddim/seq_asc/page_1/
Lots of "borrowing" still goes on obviously but I think with travel much more difficult and less TV and radio it wasn't uncommon for someone to immediately re-record a potential hit as soon as it made it over the Atlantic. Just didn't quite realise how many of their greatest hits were originally someone elses. Think record companies importing or re-pressing records from abroad was a bit more recent.
A huge amount of the 2-Tone stuff was covers of original Jamaican ska (late 50's), much of which borrows heavily from New Orleans marching jazz, as virtually all the original musicians learnt their instruments in their respective school marching jazz bands.
There is also some of it that borrows from early British ska from the early 1960's as pioneered by the incomprable Lee "Scratch" Perry, who later went on to be a huge influence on not only ska but reggae & dub. Perry is definitely worth a listen to; though on his later offerings he does often come across as mad as a box of frogs (was like thta in person too).
The wonderful thing for me is that there are younger musicians out there taking all of these influences & using them in their music, from jazz bands like Ezra Collective, through punk/rock/ska bands like Sonic Boom Six & [spunge] for example, to more conventional ska & reggae offerings from the likes of Poison Ivy, King Zepha, New Town Kings, Maroon Town & Riddemption to name a few.
Fair enough - I got hold of a decent copy today and wondered if it was known for having a locked groove at the end of side B, but I think it's just an unfortunately positioned scratch making it loop. Not to worry, small price to pay for an otherwise great-sounding 54-year-old album.
Thought you’d been reading the Illuminati trilogy for a moment…. (But it is a great album - although I must admit it’s a good few years since I last listened to it).
I can only recall one (deliberately) locked groove (never knew it was called that) album. But as it’s a permanent feature of my top 5 albums of all time it is somewhat prominent in my limited recall facilities.
Will do! Yeah, DK I'd listened to odds and ends but not fully gone through albums until recently. I still gravitate towards the even more aggressive stuff like Black Flag, but these guys were obviously pretty pioneering.
They're not always brilliant, but the ones with Rick Rubin as interviewer are generally better, especially when it's people from his era. That Rollins one is my favourite of the lot though, he's such a decent person and his stories of how he came to even be in Black Flag in the first place are great. I don't think he tours with music any more, just the spoken word stuff. I was lucky enough to see him just once in that period where he was phasing out the music side and starting to do more spoken word - amazing gig with incredible energy and loads of telling his life stories to the crowd.
Comments
@StrongestTeam Surely that question should have been "is it one step beyond?"
@Steve_Peart I actually won this on a stall at Penn Fair when I was probably 9 or 10 years old.
Not surprisingly I'd never heard it before, but I thought it was great then and still do now.
Was amazed to see it turn up on YouTube after all these years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX5k1AvkLgs&ab_channel=earlyska
I also won this one at the same time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9abre-f3xKg&ab_channel=Rico%27sCombo-Topic
Plus the B side...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OCwPqMhfqo&ab_channel=DonaldGregory
Huge chunks of the specials and Madness back catalogue are "borrowed" and cleaned up for British audiences, Prince Buster and others most obviously copied although I gather the same is true of a lot of 50s and 60s rock from the US.
Worth noting that the idea of originality, IP and copyright in Jamaican dancehall and ska was (and still is to a degree) considerably more fluid than it's ever been here. You used to have the concept of a riddim - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddim - typically a bass line, that would be used by many, many different artists to create their own tunes. Probably the most famous example being the Sleng Teng riddim which was used on literally hundreds of songs: https://www.riddimguide.com/tunedb/riddim_Sleng%20Teng/sortby_riddim/seq_asc/page_1/
Lots of "borrowing" still goes on obviously but I think with travel much more difficult and less TV and radio it wasn't uncommon for someone to immediately re-record a potential hit as soon as it made it over the Atlantic. Just didn't quite realise how many of their greatest hits were originally someone elses. Think record companies importing or re-pressing records from abroad was a bit more recent.
Thanks @NewburyWanderer, I enjoyed those, what amazing prizes. Thanks also to @StrongestTeam for bringing up Ska, I will explore on YouTube.
A huge amount of the 2-Tone stuff was covers of original Jamaican ska (late 50's), much of which borrows heavily from New Orleans marching jazz, as virtually all the original musicians learnt their instruments in their respective school marching jazz bands.
There is also some of it that borrows from early British ska from the early 1960's as pioneered by the incomprable Lee "Scratch" Perry, who later went on to be a huge influence on not only ska but reggae & dub. Perry is definitely worth a listen to; though on his later offerings he does often come across as mad as a box of frogs (was like thta in person too).
The wonderful thing for me is that there are younger musicians out there taking all of these influences & using them in their music, from jazz bands like Ezra Collective, through punk/rock/ska bands like Sonic Boom Six & [spunge] for example, to more conventional ska & reggae offerings from the likes of Poison Ivy, King Zepha, New Town Kings, Maroon Town & Riddemption to name a few.
Just a note in relation to the sad passing today of Carla Bley. I had the privilege of seeing her in the late 70s.
She had the courage to explore where music could go and an understanding and respect of everything that went before.
Thanks to listening to her music I was interested enough to open the door marked ‘jazz’ and my life had been all the richer for doing so.
RIP Carla and thanks.
(And apologies for a somewhat self-indulgent post)
The new Stones album is actually bloody good. I'm pleasantly surprised!
Might give it a listen
Much less surprised that The National's latest album - Laugh Track is up to their usual excellent stnadard.
I still need to listen to that properly actually - I wasn't a huge fan of First Two Pages...
Does anyone here happen to own Kick Out the Jams on vinyl? I have a very specific question...
Thought I had but, no, turned out to be Back in the USA LP.
Fair enough - I got hold of a decent copy today and wondered if it was known for having a locked groove at the end of side B, but I think it's just an unfortunately positioned scratch making it loop. Not to worry, small price to pay for an otherwise great-sounding 54-year-old album.
Thought you’d been reading the Illuminati trilogy for a moment…. (But it is a great album - although I must admit it’s a good few years since I last listened to it).
I can only recall one (deliberately) locked groove (never knew it was called that) album. But as it’s a permanent feature of my top 5 albums of all time it is somewhat prominent in my limited recall facilities.
Sgt Pepper’s?
Yep, that's definitely got one
Penthouse & Pavement has one, which also reflects the theme of the final track.
Has Sgt Pepper? Wow. Been a while since I’ve listened to the vinyl version but forgot that. The one I was thinking of was This Heat.
Illuminatus trilogy. Though discordian ideals would suggest you should call it whatever you like.
Anyone on here a Dead Kennedys fan? I didn't realise they were on Cherry Red - quite a cool association for the club to have.
When I was your age the coolest item anyone could own was an Alternative Tentacles messenger bag.
Actually, if you're enjoying the Kennedys, check out Lard too - start with The Power of Lard
And! Just in case I haven't recommended it before, this podcast with Rick Rubin interviewing Henry Rollins is just wonderful from start to finish.
I bought Rick Rubin's book the other week. Not quite sure what to make of it so far, but it's interesting for sure.
Will do! Yeah, DK I'd listened to odds and ends but not fully gone through albums until recently. I still gravitate towards the even more aggressive stuff like Black Flag, but these guys were obviously pretty pioneering.
Lard are brilliant. The albums Biafra did with DoA are well worth a listen too.
3 tracks totalling 44 minutes - yep, this seems good https://open.spotify.com/album/4c3GEruFdVwrC5jzcj9632?si=QrmYedpVSzi53OIrewXvtA&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A4c3GEruFdVwrC5jzcj9632
Thanks for this, listening now. The list of interviewees for this podcast is amazing!
They're not always brilliant, but the ones with Rick Rubin as interviewer are generally better, especially when it's people from his era. That Rollins one is my favourite of the lot though, he's such a decent person and his stories of how he came to even be in Black Flag in the first place are great. I don't think he tours with music any more, just the spoken word stuff. I was lucky enough to see him just once in that period where he was phasing out the music side and starting to do more spoken word - amazing gig with incredible energy and loads of telling his life stories to the crowd.