"Referee Peter Wright played 10 added minutes in the first half and another six in the second, reflecting some of the gamesmanship that had gone on in normal time."
Not sure what game "The Bolton News" reporter was watching but surely the added time largely reflected the serious injuries that occurred during the match?
Just what "antics" are they anyway? There was a situation where we were awarded a free kick. A Bolton player petulantly threw the ball in the vague direction of Stewart, who was waiting to take the free kick, but it wasn't thrown near him, and was thrown with enough anger/annoyance that it rolled a good few yards even further away. When Stewart stood his ground, waiting for the ball to be returned, the crowd went ballistic and Bolton players/management started gesticulating wildly. But what exactly did Stewart do wrong? When did he suddenly become responsible for chasing the ball around the pitch when preparing for a free kick because an opposition player didn't have the good grace to throw it over to him? When, in fact, did Stewart become a ball boy? So as a result of Bolton's own actions their players, management, and crowd start frothing at the mouth, ambulances are put on stand by, cardiac machines powered up in readiness...
Teams are starting to beat themselves because our legendary "antics", and to be honest, it's f***ing hilarious.
I find it ridiculous, there is absolutely no need for some of the lengths we go to, to avoid getting the game re-started. Some standard time wasting towards the end of the match, on a par with what is deemed appropriate, I don't have a huge issue with.
If anything it can galvanise the opposition, in much the same way going down to 10 men for dubious red can do sometimes.
I'd like to see the following cut out by us and would be quite happy to see 10 minute sin bins introduced for all footballers who **persist ** in:
Watching the ball roll past them or over their head when they could clearly get the ball. Must have done this 7 or 8 times at end of first half.
Pretending to run to take a corner / free-kick / throw / goal kick - when it is quite clear they are going slower than they would be if walking. Again Obita, McCleary and Stockdale did this in the first half.
Refusing to get the ball when you are the nearest player and instead waiting for someone else to get it for you or an opposition player to react.
Moving the ball forwards or backwards deliberately so the ref gets us to put it back to correct position.
Interestingly, in the 2nd half we literally did nothing to slow the game down, except for Thompson booting it away right at the end. I have no idea where 6 minutes of stoppage time came from.
Rushing the ball back into play when you're tired, out of position or have seconds left in the half would also be fairly ludicrous. Some balance required. It's not just that everyone else also does it but they do.
@Commoner said:
I find it ridiculous, there is absolutely no need for some of the lengths we go to, to avoid getting the game re-started. Some standard time wasting towards the end of the match, on a par with what is deemed appropriate, I don't have a huge issue with.
If anything it can galvanise the opposition, in much the same way going down to 10 men for dubious red can do sometimes.
I'd like to see the following cut out by us and would be quite happy to see 10 minute sin bins introduced for all footballers who **persist ** in:
Watching the ball roll past them or over their head when they could clearly get the ball. Must have done this 7 or 8 times at end of first half.
Pretending to run to take a corner / free-kick / throw / goal kick - when it is quite clear they are going slower than they would be if walking. Again Obita, McCleary and Stockdale did this in the first half.
Refusing to get the ball when you are the nearest player and instead waiting for someone else to get it for you or an opposition player to react.
Moving the ball forwards or backwards deliberately so the ref gets us to put it back to correct position.
Interestingly, in the 2nd half we literally did nothing to slow the game down, except for Thompson booting it away right at the end. I have no idea where 6 minutes of stoppage time came from.
Sorry but I really don't follow you on a few of them?
Walking pace is fine to a set piece, fannying about for 30 seconds once you get there isn't, but if I've just ran 50 yards on the pitch in play, I'll take my rest when the ball goes out thanks. Also seeing as we put the ball in box from most set pieces, we want to give the defenders a chance to get up the field without having to sprint. Nothing wrong with that IMO
If the opposition decide to launch the ball over my head when they're losing, that's on them. Letting it go under your foot I'm less ok with, but I completely get why players who are taking the throw don't start walking onto the pitch to get the ball as referees often take that as time wasting itself unless you're doing it in a rush. If Wycombe are losing, I expect our players to be alert to the situation and make an effort to get the ball to the taker, not moan that the team with no incentive to rush aren't rushing to make it easier for us.
Moving the ball so the ref deliberately moves it back... That's usually a booking if it's blatant anyway
@Commoner said:
I find it ridiculous, there is absolutely no need for some of the lengths we go to, to avoid getting the game re-started. Some standard time wasting towards the end of the match, on a par with what is deemed appropriate, I don't have a huge issue with.
If anything it can galvanise the opposition, in much the same way going down to 10 men for dubious red can do sometimes.
I'd like to see the following cut out by us and would be quite happy to see 10 minute sin bins introduced for all footballers who **persist ** in:
Watching the ball roll past them or over their head when they could clearly get the ball. Must have done this 7 or 8 times at end of first half.
Pretending to run to take a corner / free-kick / throw / goal kick - when it is quite clear they are going slower than they would be if walking. Again Obita, McCleary and Stockdale did this in the first half.
Refusing to get the ball when you are the nearest player and instead waiting for someone else to get it for you or an opposition player to react.
Moving the ball forwards or backwards deliberately so the ref gets us to put it back to correct position.
Interestingly, in the 2nd half we literally did nothing to slow the game down, except for Thompson booting it away right at the end. I have no idea where 6 minutes of stoppage time came from.
We must be incredible doing all this stuff yet very very rarely get rebuked by refs though?
And clearly you never notice every other team doing all the above and more, including the one I hate the most, stealing about 10 yards on every throw in.
@Wendoverman said:
So is everyone of the opinion that like every opponent believes, we have all of the officials in our pocket?
Of course, and those extra time minutes are only for us to use, the opposition aren't allowed in our half I hear. I do hope we are writing to the EFL about Charles Breakspear btw, he stopped the clock when two Sunderland players collided with eachother on Saturday and allowed them to get treatment. This has upset some of the good folk of Peterborough and Oxford who would rather the players were seriously ill it would appear.
I really feel like so posters are starting to react a little like the opposition around some of our game management.
I believe the tipping point for gross over reaction by the Bolton players and management was an incident where McCleary(?) had gone down, Bolton played on - as they are entitled - and the ball ended up with Stockdale. He aimed a kick upfield but not necessarily out of play - it wasn't pick up on ifollow - and as the Bolton player rushed to keep it in play the ref blew up so McCleary could receive treatment.
To me there is nothing in that which is against the rules or spirit of the game, nor did Wycombe stop the play, it was the ref.
It's typical that Bolton should then go into overdrive an accuse Wycombe of time wasting but really we didn't.
@Cambridge_Blue said:
I don't agree with this idea that we 'barely got out of second gear'. What we saw was every single player giving 100% work rate for the entire game and our defence being incredibly sharp to snuff out their numerous attacks. This was not an easy game. The team pressing in their half was particularly impressive.
I think in terms of capability we didn't play to our max. Mehmeti and McCleary weren't (were not allowed to be) as magical as usual and there were some tired legs in the 2nd half. In terms of application we always hit the top gears.
Bolton fans are still thinking they are a big side and their fans are deluded with the same god complex as so many in this league. Instead of belittling the opposition they should maybe take a look at their lot today and not past glories. I'm looking at you Portsmouth, Charlton, Ipswich, Sunderland, etc etc etc
@Wycombe85 said:
The end of the 1st half did get embarrassing and I don't think it did us any favours...
Much as I agree it is embarrassing, part of the problem is that if you read their manager's comments, it does do us favours! He basically says our "game management" wound his players up and as a result they lost concentration and focus, which is pretty much why I think we continue to do it so much.
Refreshingly he blames his players for falling into the trap rather than our players/management for doing it and I tend to think that if other teams just got on with it we wouldn't over-play it as much as we sometimes do.
I wonder whether our reputation now actually helps us in some away games. The home crowd expect it and over-react to the first inklings of anything resembling timewasting, which then feeds into any players expectation of us being 'time wasting bastards' (if we are winning) and they then tend to worry more about our "antics" than the actual game of football.
I usually defend us from most of the time wasting accusations, because whilst excepting that we are guilty at times, I do think our reputation is grossly exaggerated. The closing stages of the 1st half last night were not great to watch though, from either side. It was gratifying to see us completely drop this approach in the 2nd half though and put on a very watchable and professional performance. In the end, we can look back on it as a few minutes of tetchiness that can creep into any game. I had feared we'd be in for a horrible 2nd half, but thankfully those concerns never materialised. Credit to the players and management for seeing the best way to win the match was by attacking their weak defence and not by sitting back and wasting time.
As I tried to point out, there is fairly standard and acceptable things that happen on the pitch, which all clubs do to an extent. Waiting for the full backs to come up to take a throw on, player crossing sides to take a corner or free kick are reasonable.
Then there was our behaviour in the last 10 minutes of the first half, which was completely over the top and taking the absolute biscuit. It was embarrassing and I wish on some occasions we wouldn't take every opportunity to keep the ball out of play. We even move out the way/duck etc when the ball is given to us to waste time - that's not on in my book.
Compare that to how we behaved in the last 10 minutes of the 2nd half, they were world's apart.
The last 10 of that first half was just a constant barrage of us pushing the limits on time wasting and we got one yellow for it but should and could have been more.
I suspect the referee came in at half-time and told us that if we behaved like that in the 2nd half, the cards were coming out straight away and the time would be added on.
I find it equally frustrating that players pinch 10 yards at throw ins. Ref's should just hand the throw over to the oppo, I think that's in the laws? Always used to be anyway. I'd also change goal kicks to corners for timewasting in the laws - they'd soon get the ball back in play.
Goal difference might play a big part this season in whether we make autos or play-offs. I would much rather see us trying to improve that than waste time.
When teams or managers are obviously rattled by it, why wouldn't an experienced Pro notice that and carry on doing exactly the same thing.... Or even step it up.
Seeing as our reputation precedes us now, half the teams we play lose their rag over breaks in play which are totally normal, entirely makes sense to use that to our advantage
The players have some of these options available to them and like at every other club will chose to do so at appropriate times through experience and analysis of when breaks are required and goals are concerned. The ref can add on time as he sees fit. Let other clubs go ferral if they want.
Looking at the Grimmer goal again, wonderful finish but look at the total lack of marking. Quite funny really. But yeah , best team in the league, unlucky at both ends , time wasters, know what their going to get blah blah,
@bookertease that's a fair point. It does definitely help at Plymouth, their fans completely lose the plot if our players are not sprinting to take every free kick and throw in! That I'm sure filters through to the players, who also lose their rag and subsequently their focus.
Last night, I think both sets of players were winding each other up for that spell at the end of the 1st half, us with our time wasting and them with the constant diving. So yes, whilst I think sometimes it does work in our favour, I'm not sure that was the case last night. We were annoying the referee, which is never a clever idea and picking up bookings (McLeary's being absolutely daft and Taf, which I thought was very harsh). I think we needed to take a step back on this occasion and just concentrate on the football, which thankfully is exactly what we did.
I think you'll find the referee bottled every decision after Ainsworth shouted at him (according to Trotters fans) so I would doubt he had the balls to go in and warn the management about anything.
@Username said:
When teams or managers are obviously rattled by it, why wouldn't an experienced Pro notice that and carry on doing exactly the same thing.... Or even step it up.
Because there other considerations including, but by no means limited to, self respect.
@Username said:
When teams or managers are obviously rattled by it, why wouldn't an experienced Pro notice that and carry on doing exactly the same thing.... Or even step it up.
Because there other considerations including, but by no means limited to, self respect.
I think we should know our place, respect bigger, richer clubs, however ruinously they've been run, and like Rochdale, try to play pretty football, fail and get relegated but the big boys will like us and pat us on the head and say how nice and plucky we are on their internet forums. Which is what matters, right?
Comments
"Referee Peter Wright played 10 added minutes in the first half and another six in the second, reflecting some of the gamesmanship that had gone on in normal time."
Not sure what game "The Bolton News" reporter was watching but surely the added time largely reflected the serious injuries that occurred during the match?
Anyone wanting a good laugh, take a look at Alan Swann's Twitter from last night
Just seen the highlights, what a goal from Jack Grimmer!
Just what "antics" are they anyway? There was a situation where we were awarded a free kick. A Bolton player petulantly threw the ball in the vague direction of Stewart, who was waiting to take the free kick, but it wasn't thrown near him, and was thrown with enough anger/annoyance that it rolled a good few yards even further away. When Stewart stood his ground, waiting for the ball to be returned, the crowd went ballistic and Bolton players/management started gesticulating wildly. But what exactly did Stewart do wrong? When did he suddenly become responsible for chasing the ball around the pitch when preparing for a free kick because an opposition player didn't have the good grace to throw it over to him? When, in fact, did Stewart become a ball boy? So as a result of Bolton's own actions their players, management, and crowd start frothing at the mouth, ambulances are put on stand by, cardiac machines powered up in readiness...
Teams are starting to beat themselves because our legendary "antics", and to be honest, it's f***ing hilarious.
I find it ridiculous, there is absolutely no need for some of the lengths we go to, to avoid getting the game re-started. Some standard time wasting towards the end of the match, on a par with what is deemed appropriate, I don't have a huge issue with.
If anything it can galvanise the opposition, in much the same way going down to 10 men for dubious red can do sometimes.
I'd like to see the following cut out by us and would be quite happy to see 10 minute sin bins introduced for all footballers who **persist ** in:
Watching the ball roll past them or over their head when they could clearly get the ball. Must have done this 7 or 8 times at end of first half.
Pretending to run to take a corner / free-kick / throw / goal kick - when it is quite clear they are going slower than they would be if walking. Again Obita, McCleary and Stockdale did this in the first half.
Refusing to get the ball when you are the nearest player and instead waiting for someone else to get it for you or an opposition player to react.
Moving the ball forwards or backwards deliberately so the ref gets us to put it back to correct position.
Interestingly, in the 2nd half we literally did nothing to slow the game down, except for Thompson booting it away right at the end. I have no idea where 6 minutes of stoppage time came from.
Rushing the ball back into play when you're tired, out of position or have seconds left in the half would also be fairly ludicrous. Some balance required. It's not just that everyone else also does it but they do.
Sorry but I really don't follow you on a few of them?
Walking pace is fine to a set piece, fannying about for 30 seconds once you get there isn't, but if I've just ran 50 yards on the pitch in play, I'll take my rest when the ball goes out thanks. Also seeing as we put the ball in box from most set pieces, we want to give the defenders a chance to get up the field without having to sprint. Nothing wrong with that IMO
If the opposition decide to launch the ball over my head when they're losing, that's on them. Letting it go under your foot I'm less ok with, but I completely get why players who are taking the throw don't start walking onto the pitch to get the ball as referees often take that as time wasting itself unless you're doing it in a rush. If Wycombe are losing, I expect our players to be alert to the situation and make an effort to get the ball to the taker, not moan that the team with no incentive to rush aren't rushing to make it easier for us.
Moving the ball so the ref deliberately moves it back... That's usually a booking if it's blatant anyway
Very like an Uche Ikpeazu strike in fact!
So is everyone of the opinion that like every opponent believes, we have all of the officials in our pocket?
We must be incredible doing all this stuff yet very very rarely get rebuked by refs though?
And clearly you never notice every other team doing all the above and more, including the one I hate the most, stealing about 10 yards on every throw in.
Of course, and those extra time minutes are only for us to use, the opposition aren't allowed in our half I hear. I do hope we are writing to the EFL about Charles Breakspear btw, he stopped the clock when two Sunderland players collided with eachother on Saturday and allowed them to get treatment. This has upset some of the good folk of Peterborough and Oxford who would rather the players were seriously ill it would appear.
I really feel like so posters are starting to react a little like the opposition around some of our game management.
I believe the tipping point for gross over reaction by the Bolton players and management was an incident where McCleary(?) had gone down, Bolton played on - as they are entitled - and the ball ended up with Stockdale. He aimed a kick upfield but not necessarily out of play - it wasn't pick up on ifollow - and as the Bolton player rushed to keep it in play the ref blew up so McCleary could receive treatment.
To me there is nothing in that which is against the rules or spirit of the game, nor did Wycombe stop the play, it was the ref.
It's typical that Bolton should then go into overdrive an accuse Wycombe of time wasting but really we didn't.
I think in terms of capability we didn't play to our max. Mehmeti and McCleary weren't (were not allowed to be) as magical as usual and there were some tired legs in the 2nd half. In terms of application we always hit the top gears.
Bolton fans are still thinking they are a big side and their fans are deluded with the same god complex as so many in this league. Instead of belittling the opposition they should maybe take a look at their lot today and not past glories. I'm looking at you Portsmouth, Charlton, Ipswich, Sunderland, etc etc etc
Much as I agree it is embarrassing, part of the problem is that if you read their manager's comments, it does do us favours! He basically says our "game management" wound his players up and as a result they lost concentration and focus, which is pretty much why I think we continue to do it so much.
Refreshingly he blames his players for falling into the trap rather than our players/management for doing it and I tend to think that if other teams just got on with it we wouldn't over-play it as much as we sometimes do.
I wonder whether our reputation now actually helps us in some away games. The home crowd expect it and over-react to the first inklings of anything resembling timewasting, which then feeds into any players expectation of us being 'time wasting bastards' (if we are winning) and they then tend to worry more about our "antics" than the actual game of football.
Yes, exactly that, @bookertease
I usually defend us from most of the time wasting accusations, because whilst excepting that we are guilty at times, I do think our reputation is grossly exaggerated. The closing stages of the 1st half last night were not great to watch though, from either side. It was gratifying to see us completely drop this approach in the 2nd half though and put on a very watchable and professional performance. In the end, we can look back on it as a few minutes of tetchiness that can creep into any game. I had feared we'd be in for a horrible 2nd half, but thankfully those concerns never materialised. Credit to the players and management for seeing the best way to win the match was by attacking their weak defence and not by sitting back and wasting time.
@Malone @StrongestTeam @Username
As I tried to point out, there is fairly standard and acceptable things that happen on the pitch, which all clubs do to an extent. Waiting for the full backs to come up to take a throw on, player crossing sides to take a corner or free kick are reasonable.
Then there was our behaviour in the last 10 minutes of the first half, which was completely over the top and taking the absolute biscuit. It was embarrassing and I wish on some occasions we wouldn't take every opportunity to keep the ball out of play. We even move out the way/duck etc when the ball is given to us to waste time - that's not on in my book.
Compare that to how we behaved in the last 10 minutes of the 2nd half, they were world's apart.
The last 10 of that first half was just a constant barrage of us pushing the limits on time wasting and we got one yellow for it but should and could have been more.
I suspect the referee came in at half-time and told us that if we behaved like that in the 2nd half, the cards were coming out straight away and the time would be added on.
I find it equally frustrating that players pinch 10 yards at throw ins. Ref's should just hand the throw over to the oppo, I think that's in the laws? Always used to be anyway. I'd also change goal kicks to corners for timewasting in the laws - they'd soon get the ball back in play.
Goal difference might play a big part this season in whether we make autos or play-offs. I would much rather see us trying to improve that than waste time.
When teams or managers are obviously rattled by it, why wouldn't an experienced Pro notice that and carry on doing exactly the same thing.... Or even step it up.
Seeing as our reputation precedes us now, half the teams we play lose their rag over breaks in play which are totally normal, entirely makes sense to use that to our advantage
The players have some of these options available to them and like at every other club will chose to do so at appropriate times through experience and analysis of when breaks are required and goals are concerned. The ref can add on time as he sees fit. Let other clubs go ferral if they want.
Looking at the Grimmer goal again, wonderful finish but look at the total lack of marking. Quite funny really. But yeah , best team in the league, unlucky at both ends , time wasters, know what their going to get blah blah,
@bookertease that's a fair point. It does definitely help at Plymouth, their fans completely lose the plot if our players are not sprinting to take every free kick and throw in! That I'm sure filters through to the players, who also lose their rag and subsequently their focus.
Last night, I think both sets of players were winding each other up for that spell at the end of the 1st half, us with our time wasting and them with the constant diving. So yes, whilst I think sometimes it does work in our favour, I'm not sure that was the case last night. We were annoying the referee, which is never a clever idea and picking up bookings (McLeary's being absolutely daft and Taf, which I thought was very harsh). I think we needed to take a step back on this occasion and just concentrate on the football, which thankfully is exactly what we did.
I think you'll find the referee bottled every decision after Ainsworth shouted at him (according to Trotters fans) so I would doubt he had the balls to go in and warn the management about anything.
Class from Obita rattling the Bolton fans some more at the end
We don’t know how good we’ve got it do we?
I love them all
No doubt there will be a Trotters poster saying 'Did you see them celebrating like they'd won the FA Cup. Tinpot...'
My favourite thing about Jack Grimmer is just how bloody Scottish he is
Because there other considerations including, but by no means limited to, self respect.
We’re third in L1. That’s pretty respectable.
I think we should know our place, respect bigger, richer clubs, however ruinously they've been run, and like Rochdale, try to play pretty football, fail and get relegated but the big boys will like us and pat us on the head and say how nice and plucky we are on their internet forums. Which is what matters, right?