I don’t expect us to be in the championship next season not in the slightest but if we are can we arrange to meet up in the beer tent prior to the first game for drinks and readings from the Peterborough/Oxford fans forums
TBH, since in the period that Derby were "cooking the books" we were not in the Championship, I'd rather the EFL just give us some clarity over our status in League 1 and then really punish Derby with a points deduction and meaningful fine as a separate issue - I mean a £100k fine is laughable.
Currently neither ourselves nor Derby can budget effectively, although I suspect we have quietly accepted our position will be in League 1 and are recruiting/budgeting on that basis.
It's a f**king piss take by those supposedly in charge, maybe we should bring a charge of "Bringing the Game into Disrepute" against them?
Shockingly, I find myself agreeing with @glasshalffull and defending the EFL. It seems to me that the problem is the independent panel - and in reply to @ReturnToSenda , you can question the kind of people that the EFL appointed to it, but it's clear that the panel is now all too independent. The EFL wanted to see Derby relegated, but the independent panel found them not guilty and the EFL appealed. Then the same independent panel, having been told on appeal that their original decision was wrong, are in charge of coming up with an appropriate punishment, which amazingly is derisory.
@TheDancingYak said:
Obviously the fair and right thing to do is for the EFL to pay us as if we were in the championship, even if we end up starting in league one.
Seems rude even to suggest it but for all we know, however unlikely, a deal behind the scenes may have already been done/offered.
The blame for the EFL is in not setting stronger clearer criteria in the first place and then not subsequently stating there case better and earlier.
I struggle to see any other outcome to this than us in L1 next season with the prospect of a bit of compo from the league, or failing that - the courts.
The EFL has failed football time and time again with FFP and fit and proper ownership. Their willingness to turn a blind eye to some and to hammer others shows that as an organisation they are not fit for purpose.
Stoke are the next sh1t show in town no doubt for example and we all know it.
The EFL seem to be an organisation that is half way between the amatuer committee days and the modern era. So when they are confronted with a real problem and no doubt confront clubs with proper grown up legal representatives their first instinct is to defer.
Until they start show consistent decisive action on all these issues clubs will continue to push boundaries as they know they can.
Interchangeable fixtures is a new low as far as I am concerned. What an f'ing joke.
The governance of football over the last 20 years has been a shambles at all levels and it has far reaching consequences. The game itself is now played to a level of deceit as to make it an almost impossible task to referee. This has happened by increments and largely with the aid of the lawmakers, with the occasional token gesture at major tournaments about ‘doing something about diving’ or ‘stopping the entire team surrounding the referee’. International tournaments remain up for sale to the highest bidder both in terms of location and of sponsorship and the overarching international organisations remain unreformed. The same is true domestically where there is little oversight over club management and the way that the clubs relate to each other is almost as despicable as the way the players relate to their opponents. I am struggling to enjoy football anymore, it’s a massive shitshow from top to bottom and there are fans on all sides left bewildered and frustrated. Obviously we all want our own team to win each week and we all want to progress up the pyramid, but at what cost? I can’t remember the last time this club had a closed season that wasn’t turmoil.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
The EFL has failed football time and time again with FFP and fit and proper ownership. Their willingness to turn a blind eye to some and to hammer others shows that as an organisation they are not fit for purpose.
Stoke are the next sh1t show in town no doubt for example and we all know it.
The EFL seem to be an organisation that is half way between the amatuer committee days and the modern era. So when they are confronted with a real problem and no doubt confront clubs with proper grown up legal representatives their first instinct is to defer.
Until they start show consistent decisive action on all these issues clubs will continue to push boundaries as they know they can.
Interchangeable fixtures is a new low as far as I am concerned. What an f'ing joke.
It's not just that they're applying their rules haphazardly, it's that they aren't fit for purpose and don't stand up to legal challenge, which is probably worse tbh.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub To a great extent I don't disagree, but I do think that to some extent that's not their fault. The EFL is a smaller organisation and has fewer resources than many of the clubs they're supposed to regulate. If they behave as if they're afraid of legal action by the clubs, it's at least partly because they are woefully outgunned and can only act where they are absolutely confident of their ground.
Football governance in the UK is an embarrassing shambles - how can you have three separate bodies (FA, Premier League and EFL) providing coherent leadership, plus the power of those very top clubs. The sport desperately needs an ombudsman, one to whom all clubs and governing bodies have to obey. But then, maybe that'll simply add yet another level of prevaricating bureaucracy to what we already have.
Quite extraordinary that Sky Sports is running the Derby story without even mentioning Wycombe's name, extraordinary but not surprising.
It's a bit of luck we have a Chairman who is prepared to fight our corner.
I'd also suggest Mr R. Couhig has exactly the right skill set for this situation.
The gulf in class between the Derby statement and our own, issued earlier after the season finished, is impressive.
Planet Football is a sunny place for shady people
At some point, somebody somewhere is going to have to take corporate governance seriously - take the breakaway super league for example - today would be good.
The biggest positive of this situation for me is it hopefully means we can block any sale of Uche this summer. Until we have certainty about what division we're in, surely no relegation sale clause can kick in. Which might keep him here till Aug 18 at least, by which time Cardiff et al may have turned their attentions elsewhere.
People get paid to sort this stuff out!! This is unbelievably incompetent. (well sort of unbelievable given who it is...) It's like a disaster for both clubs...us losing players and might end up in Championship with a L1 squad and Derby buying players in (presumably on good wages) who might end up in L1!! Has Dido Harding stepped in as holiday cover before she gets the NHS gig...?
Kieran is a very, very nice man and a great source of financial analysis, his podcast is excellent too.
PriceOfFootball @KieranMaguire
Rough calculations suggest Derby would still be within the £39m loss limit for 2016-18 because the profit on sale of PP more than offsets the higher depreciation charge. Further issue is how the £12m profit on writing off some shares in 2016 is classified for FFP.
@OakwoodExile said: @TheAndyGrahamFanClub To a great extent I don't disagree, but I do think that to some extent that's not their fault. The EFL is a smaller organisation and has fewer resources than many of the clubs they're supposed to regulate. If they behave as if they're afraid of legal action by the clubs, it's at least partly because they are woefully outgunned and can only act where they are absolutely confident of their ground.
The EFL TV money is in the hundred's of millions. Their members collective turnover is also going to be in the hundreds of millions. Their members collectively employ thousands of people. They need to be fit for purpose. I know it used to be all cosy golf trips to Portugal and sorting things out behind closed doors but those days are gone. Until they start showing they have a stick they will never have the respect of owners of these clubs and they will see the EFL as an easy touch to do as they please. The ultimate victims being us the fans.
Comments
I don’t expect us to be in the championship next season not in the slightest but if we are can we arrange to meet up in the beer tent prior to the first game for drinks and readings from the Peterborough/Oxford fans forums
Not looking to defend the EFL but let’s not forget that this matter was dealt with by an ‘independent’ disciplinary commission.
@glasshalffull But are they not appointed by the EFL? Which kind of calls into question how independent they are imo.
TBH, since in the period that Derby were "cooking the books" we were not in the Championship, I'd rather the EFL just give us some clarity over our status in League 1 and then really punish Derby with a points deduction and meaningful fine as a separate issue - I mean a £100k fine is laughable.
Currently neither ourselves nor Derby can budget effectively, although I suspect we have quietly accepted our position will be in League 1 and are recruiting/budgeting on that basis.
It's a f**king piss take by those supposedly in charge, maybe we should bring a charge of "Bringing the Game into Disrepute" against them?
Wycombe need to take action now. Next season is at risk
Yep, this isn't something we can just quietly stay out of, not now the EFL have dangled a pretty enormous carrot.
what action do we need to take?
Derby have until 18th August to submit revised accounts, so I'm not sure what exactly the point of the statement last night was?
Shockingly, I find myself agreeing with @glasshalffull and defending the EFL. It seems to me that the problem is the independent panel - and in reply to @ReturnToSenda , you can question the kind of people that the EFL appointed to it, but it's clear that the panel is now all too independent. The EFL wanted to see Derby relegated, but the independent panel found them not guilty and the EFL appealed. Then the same independent panel, having been told on appeal that their original decision was wrong, are in charge of coming up with an appropriate punishment, which amazingly is derisory.
Seems rude even to suggest it but for all we know, however unlikely, a deal behind the scenes may have already been done/offered.
Havering said that, would we really put it past the EFL to postpone our first few fixtures because of 'exceptional circumstances'?
The blame for the EFL is in not setting stronger clearer criteria in the first place and then not subsequently stating there case better and earlier.
I struggle to see any other outcome to this than us in L1 next season with the prospect of a bit of compo from the league, or failing that - the courts.
This being a Wycombe fan thing is never dull is it.
Derby: "The Club disputes that a points’ deduction at any time is appropriate" lol lol lol lol and a bit more lol. Thieving gits.
The EFL has failed football time and time again with FFP and fit and proper ownership. Their willingness to turn a blind eye to some and to hammer others shows that as an organisation they are not fit for purpose.
Stoke are the next sh1t show in town no doubt for example and we all know it.
The EFL seem to be an organisation that is half way between the amatuer committee days and the modern era. So when they are confronted with a real problem and no doubt confront clubs with proper grown up legal representatives their first instinct is to defer.
Until they start show consistent decisive action on all these issues clubs will continue to push boundaries as they know they can.
Interchangeable fixtures is a new low as far as I am concerned. What an f'ing joke.
We effectively stand to lose out on £5.9 million
The governance of football over the last 20 years has been a shambles at all levels and it has far reaching consequences. The game itself is now played to a level of deceit as to make it an almost impossible task to referee. This has happened by increments and largely with the aid of the lawmakers, with the occasional token gesture at major tournaments about ‘doing something about diving’ or ‘stopping the entire team surrounding the referee’. International tournaments remain up for sale to the highest bidder both in terms of location and of sponsorship and the overarching international organisations remain unreformed. The same is true domestically where there is little oversight over club management and the way that the clubs relate to each other is almost as despicable as the way the players relate to their opponents. I am struggling to enjoy football anymore, it’s a massive shitshow from top to bottom and there are fans on all sides left bewildered and frustrated. Obviously we all want our own team to win each week and we all want to progress up the pyramid, but at what cost? I can’t remember the last time this club had a closed season that wasn’t turmoil.
It's not just that they're applying their rules haphazardly, it's that they aren't fit for purpose and don't stand up to legal challenge, which is probably worse tbh.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub To a great extent I don't disagree, but I do think that to some extent that's not their fault. The EFL is a smaller organisation and has fewer resources than many of the clubs they're supposed to regulate. If they behave as if they're afraid of legal action by the clubs, it's at least partly because they are woefully outgunned and can only act where they are absolutely confident of their ground.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dcfc.co.uk/amp/news/2021/06/derby-county-club-statement-24th-june-2021
Derby statement
Football governance in the UK is an embarrassing shambles - how can you have three separate bodies (FA, Premier League and EFL) providing coherent leadership, plus the power of those very top clubs. The sport desperately needs an ombudsman, one to whom all clubs and governing bodies have to obey. But then, maybe that'll simply add yet another level of prevaricating bureaucracy to what we already have.
Derby's statement is ungracious, to say the very least
So the EFL can appeal the lenient sanction the independent panel gave ?
Is there a time framework for this ?
Quite extraordinary that Sky Sports is running the Derby story without even mentioning Wycombe's name, extraordinary but not surprising.
It's a bit of luck we have a Chairman who is prepared to fight our corner.
I'd also suggest Mr R. Couhig has exactly the right skill set for this situation.
The gulf in class between the Derby statement and our own, issued earlier after the season finished, is impressive.
Planet Football is a sunny place for shady people
At some point, somebody somewhere is going to have to take corporate governance seriously - take the breakaway super league for example - today would be good.
The biggest positive of this situation for me is it hopefully means we can block any sale of Uche this summer. Until we have certainty about what division we're in, surely no relegation sale clause can kick in. Which might keep him here till Aug 18 at least, by which time Cardiff et al may have turned their attentions elsewhere.
People get paid to sort this stuff out!! This is unbelievably incompetent. (well sort of unbelievable given who it is...) It's like a disaster for both clubs...us losing players and might end up in Championship with a L1 squad and Derby buying players in (presumably on good wages) who might end up in L1!! Has Dido Harding stepped in as holiday cover before she gets the NHS gig...?
Kieran is a very, very nice man and a great source of financial analysis, his podcast is excellent too.
PriceOfFootball
@KieranMaguire
Rough calculations suggest Derby would still be within the £39m loss limit for 2016-18 because the profit on sale of PP more than offsets the higher depreciation charge. Further issue is how the £12m profit on writing off some shares in 2016 is classified for FFP.
Do Luton have to return Fred if we get reinstated?
The EFL TV money is in the hundred's of millions. Their members collective turnover is also going to be in the hundreds of millions. Their members collectively employ thousands of people. They need to be fit for purpose. I know it used to be all cosy golf trips to Portugal and sorting things out behind closed doors but those days are gone. Until they start showing they have a stick they will never have the respect of owners of these clubs and they will see the EFL as an easy touch to do as they please. The ultimate victims being us the fans.