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Match day thread: Stoke

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  • The biggest risk is Ainsworth leaving.

  • Unfairly but luckily.for us, Ainsworth's stock won't have gone up much if at all this season, so can't see him leaving anytime soon. No way would he allow a hangover into next season. I'm already looking forward to it, and being there to see it.

  • Yes you can't imagine either a championship club would now come in for him, or that Gareth would up and leave for one anyway.

    He'll have seen it's a difficult league, and he won't have the job security he has here anywhere else.
    Instead he has a great chance to really build here.

  • I agree with that @Malone. It’s not a risk.

    I think @aloysius seriously underestimates Mehmeti. In terms of skill on the ball, quickness of thought and creativity he is head and shoulders above most (any?) of our other midfielders.

    On the downside, he has so much confidence on the ball that he gets caught in possession more often than he will as he gains experience. He also tends to run around a lot off the ball (possibly a Wycombisation requirement).

    Towards the end of the game yesterday he operated in a deeper position, not far ahead of the back four. From that position he had more room to operate and, by definition, he tended to be up against opposition midfielders rather than out and out defenders. His distribution to wide players is consistently accurate.

    I am very much in agreement with @Quarterman and @Glenactico regarding the value of playing McCleary and Horgan as out and out wingers on a consistent basis. Mehmeti, playing in that deeper position, would get the ball to them as accurately as anyone whilst also occasionally getting forward himself to join in attacking moves.

    Mehmeti has the potential to be as good a midfielder as Eberiche Eze. IMHO.

  • @Forest_Blue said:

    @Glenactico said:
    I think our distribution from the back is actually costing us a bit insofar as we just can’t really get the ball into the feet of the wingers in any space. None of our defenders or defensive midfielders are particularly good at placing a pass to get moves going. In fairness to them, we have set up that way and they’ve been coached for years to play direct to Bayo. But it does mean our wide players rarely receive a controlled pass into feet in the opposition half.

    Essentially we are still trying to get controlled possession when the ball goes forward, whereas other teams at this level are in settled command of the ball before it is played into midfield or wide areas.

    Agree with this observation. We don’t make it easy for our wide men to shine. Look at some of our opponents who carry the ball forwards and work to engineer an ‘overload’ - 2 v 1 in our wide defensive areas...we have struggled against this type of play this season, but we have also struggled to create it ourselves.

    Yes, that is another good example. To create an overload situation someone from a defensive position needs to push forward into the attacking third to allow us to double up somewhere. We’ve rarely done that this season and teams look comfortable defending us most of the time.

    None of this is a compliant. It is exactly what we expected and what should really happen given the budget gap. But it will be interesting to see how much we are able to adapt our game next season.

  • I think anyone that thinks 'Gareth' wouldn't leave if a decent offer came in from a Championship side is remarkably naive. Isn't it just possible he'll think he's taken us as far as we're likely to go so it's time for a new challenge? I don't think he'd turn down a half decent offer from Reading, for example, tho I agree his stock is certainly a lot lower than it was a year ago, so unlikely he's very high on anyone's wanted list.

  • I reckon he’ll see me out but then again I am remarkably naive.

  • @Doob said:
    I think anyone that thinks 'Gareth' wouldn't leave if a decent offer came in from a Championship side is remarkably naive.

    Aaah there is nothing like the feeling you get when you know the Spring has finally arrived on the Gasroom...

  • edited March 2021

    @micra, that's an interesting analysis of Mehmeti. I didn't notice him playing in a deep-lying position on Saturday but I'm glad to hear he was good at it, it's what we need in a 451.

    I know the Gasroom likes its heroes and its whipping boys but I struggle to see why so many see Horgan as a disappointment but Mehmeti as the second coming. Both have natural skill and are exciting on the ball but neither seem to have much end product and tend to lose the ball rather than get it to another Wycombe player.

    I know Mehmeti has a lot more potential and everyone loves a Cinderella story (especially one with potential for a money-spinning ending) but I really think we're expecting too much from him at this stage and we'd be better off asking Wheeler to do the creative role, Thompson, Gape, Ofoborh or Adeniran to do the box to box battling role, Knight to do the defensive work, Horgan, McCleary and Horgan to play as out and out wingers, and Mehmeti to come on in the second half when we need a new injection of creativity.

  • I think it's harsh to polarise Horgan as a whipping boy @aloysius no one seems to be doing that. The reality is though he joined us as one of small handful who have played at this level, who we paid for, who is reportedly on the higher level of wages and who arguably has not delivered on any front apart from application. I don't know the guy enough to know whether he playing out of position or in a role he is not comfortable with, but his return on goals and assists in the league is non-existent.

  • @TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
    I think it's harsh to polarise Horgan as a whipping boy @aloysius no one seems to be doing that.

    Agreed. I like Horgan but he does frustrate with his lack of time on the ball influencing matches. His control reminds me of Kevin Betsy and I hope he will influence matches soon. I do wonder if his international ambitions will mean he leavesif we go down.

    If we are comparing him to Mehmeti then I see him as a better player. Mehmeti has age on his side with many talking about potential. He's fallen out of league football once already so has a drive to take his second chance. Interesting that the club is pushing him forward as s great talent at every opportunity. Maybe that's what he needs.

    Mehmeti needs to stay in games longer and not tire as much but I'm sure that will come. I am glad he's with us but any Eze comparisons are off the mark for me

  • It's a very long time, since I've been as excited about a talent like Mehmeti to emerge.
    My biggest fear is it wont be fulfilled at Adam's Park, due to our manager being totally immersed in the long ball philosophy.

  • @Doob said:
    I think anyone that thinks 'Gareth' wouldn't leave if a decent offer came in from a Championship side is remarkably naive. Isn't it just possible he'll think he's taken us as far as we're likely to go so it's time for a new challenge? I don't think he'd turn down a half decent offer from Reading, for example, tho I agree his stock is certainly a lot lower than it was a year ago, so unlikely he's very high on anyone's wanted list.

    Zero chance of any Championship side offering Ainsworth a contract, so no worries there Dooby.
    Be quite interesting to see if Bobby C keeps him on for next seasons league1 campaign though...

  • @Bandito said:

    @Doob said:
    I think anyone that thinks 'Gareth' wouldn't leave if a decent offer came in from a Championship side is remarkably naive. Isn't it just possible he'll think he's taken us as far as we're likely to go so it's time for a new challenge? I don't think he'd turn down a half decent offer from Reading, for example, tho I agree his stock is certainly a lot lower than it was a year ago, so unlikely he's very high on anyone's wanted list.

    Zero chance of any Championship side offering Ainsworth a contract, so no worries there Dooby.
    Be quite interesting to see if Bobby C keeps him on for next seasons league1 campaign though...

    Why is that interesting? The Rob Couhig letter that had every detail poured over by some clearly stated Ainsworth and Dobson continue and have his support.

    To then go the other way in May would be a massive about turn and would undermine anything else he ever said. I honestly think anyone doubting the club keeping Ainsworth needs to find something else to do.

  • @Bandito said:
    Be quite interesting to see if Bobby C keeps him on for next seasons league1 campaign though...

    At last a nickname for the Chaiman. Nice work.

  • Mehmeti has played about 1/6 th of the games Horgan has this season, but has produced way more.
    A couple of solo run goals and created more.

    Mehmeti is 7-8 years younger and came from the pits of non league with zero fanfare, whereas Horgan came in as this big international player with championship experience.

    I'm not sure anyone would view the two and pick Horgan as the international to be honest of this season's form.

  • I don’t think we paid anything for Horgan but he is likely to be one of the better paid signings. Whenever I’ve seen him playing for the Republic of Ireland he has played on the right hand side of midfield - essentially as a right winger with defensive responsibilities. I think we would have been expecting him to make a lot of assists and to score maybe half a dozen goals in a season. To that extent, he has been disappointing. He appears to be a generally quiet, undemonstrative person so it is hard to judge how happy he is to be at the club but, once or twice when subbed, he has looked, shall we say, “disappointed”.

    Turning to @aloysius’s comments on Mehmeti, I think the comparison is yet another example of differing expectations. They were probably too high (based on his record and background) in Horgan’s case and non-existent or very low in the case of a 19 year old whose only previous senior experience was a dozen or so games in the Essex Senior League.

    I have to say @aloysius that, if you’d blinked, you'd have missed the occasion when Mehmeti came forward with the ball from just in front of the back four but the image stayed in my mind and it struck me that there might be mileage in playing him in that area of the pitch, moving quickly forward, the ball perfectly under control, and either passing to one of the wingers or
    progressing towards the box himself.

  • A more succinct version of the post that took me half an hour to tap out @Malone !

  • Wheeler in the creative role and Mehmeti to come on second half. Crikey @aloysius, I missed those points in my sleepy state at midnight. I’m afraid I’m one of those who just doesn’t “see” Wheeler.

  • @Right_in_the_Middle said:

    Why is that interesting? The Rob Couhig letter that had every detail poured over by some clearly stated Ainsworth and Dobson continue and have his support.

    To then go the other way in May would be a massive about turn and would undermine anything else he ever said. I honestly think anyone doubting the club keeping Ainsworth needs to find something else to do.

    Ahh yes, the infamous vote of confidence in a manager by a football club owner, ha ha

  • It will be interesting to see both Couhig's expectations (not hopes) for next season and the supporters.

    We have only finished in the top ten in the third tier or above three times in our twenty nine year FL history. Yet I sense perhaps some see top ten Lg1 next year as the minimum acceptable.

    I suppose it depends on whether you are an expect and aim high always be disappointed guy or a aim high, expect low often be surprised on upside type

  • I’ve worked in both UK and US. Culturally there are massive differences, especially in a commercial context.
    ‘Under promise Over deliver’ always worked for me in the UK - that really doesn’t pan out in the New World - ‘positive process’ constantly demonstrating overt commitment is the imperative. We’ve had a hint of that from the Bobby C letter, if we aren’t pushing for an automatic spot a couple of months in next season I anticipate that being taken to another level. If so, how that chimes with experienced professionals within the club will be ‘interesting’.

  • Forgive me @DevC but I wasn’t sure whether, in your first paragraph, you were talking about Mr Couhig’s expectations about supporters’ reaction to being in League 1, (eg as a factor in season ticket sales), or were you simply saying that you will be interested to see supporters’ reaction. A bit subtle perhaps and, at the end of the day, does it really matter?!

    A bit spooky. As I was typing “at the end of the day” a guy on Crimewatch used that exact same expression. Odds against?

  • Wasn’t Bobby C in Bucks Fizz

  • Bobby C will expect us to be challenging next year with the playoffs a minimum requirement if we go down. Close season will be interesting. Clearly a number will think they can play Championship football and want to be there. A number are out of contract, what does Ainsworth do with them? And finally will Ainsworth have any money to spend.

  • @MorrisItal_ said:
    Wasn’t Bobby C in Bucks Fizz

    Re the future of Gaz and Dobbo no doubt he’ll be ‘making his mind up’.

  • I thought as a result of him making his mind up we are living in the land of make believe?

  • @DevC said:
    It will be interesting to see both Couhig's expectations (not hopes) for next season and the supporters.

    We have only finished in the top ten in the third tier or above three times in our twenty nine year FL history. Yet I sense perhaps some see top ten Lg1 next year as the minimum acceptable.

    I suppose it depends on whether you are an expect and aim high always be disappointed guy or a aim high, expect low often be surprised on upside type

    I don't think top 10 next season is exactly an "aim high" expectation.

    Football is about the now. Where we've finished before is irrelevant to where we'll finish next season in a lower tier.

    The biggest issue is whether the players are demoralised after a season of losing almost every week.

    But even for some more cautious types like me, it's hard not to be excited about our chances, looking at our squad list.

    The likes of Fred and McCarthy are star players in league 1, and haven't had a huge look in this season. You can look around the rest of the squad and make similar cases for a lot of our players.

  • edited March 2021

    @Wendoverman said:

    I thought as a result of him making his mind up we are living in the land of make believe?

    He’ll make Bucks fizz again.

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