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Match day thread: Nottingham Forest

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  • This may have gone under the radar but Bayo made his 200th appearance for the club today. A true legend.

  • @Right_in_the_Middle said:
    The current squad is built to play the Ainsworth way.

    But doesn't that result in the undoubted talents of the likes of Horgan & McCleary being very much under utilised...and dare I say one of the reasons Freeman has been shipped out?

  • Horgan started v Forest and McCleary was a substitute in the second half

  • I happen to believe that the trend for this season was set in the very first week. Against Rotherham, Horgan missed from six yards and Charles struck the woodwork before the lads were done by a sucker goal in the 93rd minute. Three points on the opening day would have been such a release but a 1-0 loss at home to a side they suspected would be one of the weaker in the league left them badly bruised psychologically, a point hammered home at Blackburn the following weekend. Those wounds took a while to heal.
    The lack of a regular potent goal-scorer was camouflaged last season but has come home to haunt in the Championship. The goals the team did score werenโ€™t exactly works of art, prods, pokes and deflections for the most part. A pity that Uche was injured for as long as he was so didnโ€™t really get started until the boys were well behind the eight ball.
    The long term injury to Dominic Gape has been a huge handicap. The Gape gap has never been completely plugged. His passing range is the best at the club.
    The timing of Anthony Stewartโ€™s injury was a sickener. Josh Knight and Tools had formed a really solid partnership but it appears as if Knight has found it difficult to sustain confidence when the side is getting beaten every week. JJโ€™s loss too has reminded us how much he is needed at both ends of the pitch.
    At the very least the boys need eight wins and hope that there are a lot of collapses elsewhere. Best to try and find a side that blends and flows and can mount a credible promotion push next season. Iโ€™ve no doubt that will happen.

  • No way Gareth should be sacked, that's just ridiculous, but I do wish he would try to adapt and try something different now and again.

    Even the club Twitter account gave up yesterday, nothing at all after the game

  • @HolmerBlue said:
    No way Gareth should be sacked, that's just ridiculous, but I do wish he would try to adapt and try something different now and again.

    Even the club Twitter account gave up yesterday, nothing at all after the game

    I do agree, he should have a job for life if he wants....just needs to have a plan B

  • You can't offer someone a job for life, you have no authority. Read the standing orders. READ THEM AND UNDERSTAND THEM!

  • Felt a bit odd that the official Twitter went silent at fulltime.

  • @MindlessDrugHoover said:
    Felt a bit odd that the official Twitter went silent at fulltime.

    Bit of history of that from the club Twitter feed. It does quite often go quiet after a defeat. All fine but doesnโ€™t quite work when judged against some of the quite chippy posts aimed at other clubs when we win.
    Not the end of the world but I think the very least the fans deserve is a couple of comments from the manager post match. Despite not being allowed at games we do matter.

  • Excellent perceptive post above from @OldEchoMan. Injuries this season have disproportionately affected key players and probably the single most significant factor was the unavailability for virtually half the season of a player who looks like a 15-20 a season goalscorer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but I canโ€™t help feeling that a few draws could have been wins and several narrow defeats could have been draws if Uche had been available. Confidence would have been greater as well. In that scenario, it seems reasonable to think that we might well now have points in the mid twenties.

    If Uche can stay fit and the back four and centre mid are less ravaged over the next 20 games, we can still get still at least get within shouting distance of survival.

  • But if a typographical cock up in that last paragraph.

  • Reading Twitter and Facebook there are a few people saying ainsworth should be sacked which I think is crazy.
    While I don't agree with some of his selections and I think we can mix our play up a lot more ,the management team are doing a great job I for one never thought we would play in the championship and we are giving most teams a hard game every week on a far smaller budget.
    If we go down we are going to be in a far better position I imagine a fair few players will leave and better players will come in like after the near miss with relegation to the conference
    We are on the up just not as fast as we would like ,Rome wasn't built in a day

  • Yesterday's Twitter silence felt a lot more intense though: usually we at least get a couple of quotes from Gareth and some 'disappointed/we go again' retweets from players. I can understand a lack of enthusiasm for it from the media team though. Tuesday and yesterday felt like an acceptance of fate had fully sunk in.

    I'd like to think we can maybe hit 30 points this season and maybe even beat one of the top teams along the way.

  • After all, we were not really prepared for promotion to the Championship. We took it yes but probably 2 or 3 seasons sooner than we expected.
    The sad thing is that we simply have not adapted our style to the Championship. Teams are much more organised and have easily worked out how to counter our up and under style of play. We certainly need a plan B but I suspect that wonโ€™t be forthcoming any time soon.

  • Forrest QPR have bought in ex prem players on serious money we have bought in ex champ players that's a big difference

  • @Right_in_the_Middle said:

    @MindlessDrugHoover said:
    Felt a bit odd that the official Twitter went silent at fulltime.

    Bit of history of that from the club Twitter feed. It does quite often go quiet after a defeat. All fine but doesnโ€™t quite work when judged against some of the quite chippy posts aimed at other clubs when we win.
    Not the end of the world but I think the very least the fans deserve is a couple of comments from the manager post match. Despite not being allowed at games we do matter.

    This interview (free to all) was placed on the club website soon after game finished.

    https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2021/february/gareths-forest-review/

  • Folks, please donโ€™t lose track of how competitive we were in most games prior to the Covid outbreak in our camp, the impact of which on players is probably still being felt. I would be surprised if we donโ€™t get 20-25 points over the next 20 games.

  • This interview (free to all) was placed on the club website soon after game finished.

    https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2021/february/gareths-forest-review/

    Gareth is a class act. We should be backing him to make the club as good as it can be within a fair budget.

  • Ainsworth is part victim of his own success. Would anyone be calling for his head if we'd lost in the playoffs and been hovering around the top 6 in L1?
    It's obviously a bit of a free pass this season, doesn't mean we all have to agree with the approach or individual decisions but once you accept the players aren't all of the standard required though there's a good chance if we were more expansive we'd get walloped more. Yup we were negative against Brum but it's the only point we've got in a while and we've been smashed 3 out of 4 games. Unfortunately the momentum drops a bit and players who were doing well either lack belief or have made mistakes after being exposed by lack of cover elsewhere, you have to make changes but we haven't and maybe won't get to a consistent point where we are competitive so the individuals and the system lack the consistency you need.
    I'd pick up on some of the suggestions from Rob around the squad being competitive though, I understand why you don't spend silly money trying to stay up but then you have to own that decision.

  • An important point @micra. For those of us who did believe survival was a possibility prior to the Covid shutdown it wasnโ€™t purely blind faith; it was based on how close we were in matches, the improvement going forwards with the acquisition of McCleary and Uche getting fit and the promise of key players coming back to fitness.

    That enforced lay off saw the clubs around us gain some clear distance and from when we came back suddenly we were adrift.

    For those who are familiar with long distance running or cycling (and are struggling to hang on in there at the back, hoping for a second wind) once the gap reaches a certain distance your shoulders do droop and itโ€™s really hard to push yourself that little bit extra if you know your efforts might only get you a little closer but not enough to catch them up.

    Thatโ€™s not the same as giving up but itโ€™s a case of getting a steady rhythm and keep going hoping some of the others hit the wall.

    We will get relegated but if we just concentrate on ourselves hopefully we will find our stride and be well placed to believe we belong at this level when we start next season in League 1

  • edited February 7

    @LX1 said:
    You can't offer someone a job for life, you have no authority. Read the standing orders. READ THEM AND UNDERSTAND THEM!

    The Queen has a job for life Mrs Weaver!

  • Ainsworth is a class act. I think the frustration for a lot of fans and posters is that he only wants to play one way and there is no alternative despite the fact we have better players ( maybe not totally proven Championship quality) who want the ball to feet and want to build the ball forward. Lets give it a right old go in these last 20 games and see what happens .

  • @davecz said:
    Ainsworth is a class act. I think the frustration for a lot of fans and posters is that he only wants to play one way and there is no alternative despite the fact we have better players ( maybe not totally proven Championship quality) who want the ball to feet and want to build the ball forward. Lets give it a right old go in these last 20 games and see what happens .

    Assumptions as I see them.

    No alternative plan - we set up lots of different ways. Some just want something Ainsworth doesnโ€™t believe in

    Fact we have better players - Not totally convinced on that

    Players want the ball to feet - no idea how this is something just these players want. They knew the style they were signing up to.

    Letโ€™s give it a right good go - are you accusing the players or management of not doing this. What does it even mean? Is that the new style you want?

    We have a great manager who wonโ€™t resort to these types of cliches. I take a lot of comfort from that. I also see other teams ripping up the plan every 20 games or so and getting nowhere. Having a settled long standing manager with a squad whoโ€™ve all bought in to the club as it is run is an amazing strength. Itโ€™s got us further than we probably should have done. Iโ€™m not giving up on this season as some seem to have. I am reconciled that relegation might happen but I donโ€™t see it as a problem or inevitable.

  • @mooneyman said

    The Queen has a job for life Mrs Weaver!

    The Queen has an inherited title for life, that's not quite the same thing. She does an immensely good job at it and I'm not sure the next incumbent will be so well respected either.

  • @Right_in_the_Middle - you donโ€™t think we have better players in the squad this season than last season. Surprised.

    Agree we have a good manager but donโ€™t understand your โ€œwonโ€™t resort to these types of cliches.โ€ Surely a sign of a great manager is the ability to adapt to various match situations. All Iโ€™m asking is be a bit braver and try something a bit different because letโ€™s be honest the current approach is not working.

  • Iโ€™m still confident Gareth and Dobbo can learn from this season and we will be better for it. They have shown they have a massive hunger for development as individuals and with their players.
    Some of the non Covid challenges they have faced this season include bigger squad, better opposition players, better opposition managers, key players passing their prime and dare I say a surprise promotion in July when a normal promotion would be April or May.
    If we hold our nerve. Continue to develop and refresh the squad building on this yearโ€™s excellent signings we have a real good chance next season of bouncing back. Losing GA and Dobbo (and you will lose both) would set us back years.

  • @davecz said:
    @Right_in_the_Middle - you donโ€™t think we have better players in the squad this season than last season. Surprised.

    Agree we have a good manager but donโ€™t understand your โ€œwonโ€™t resort to these types of cliches.โ€ Surely a sign of a great manager is the ability to adapt to various match situations. All Iโ€™m asking is be a bit braver and try something a bit different because letโ€™s be honest the current approach is not working.

    We have more depth in the squad but Iโ€™m struggling to name a new player who has stood out.

    The current approach is our managers approach. To say itโ€™s not working totally disrespects our players and our opponents. We are learning to play in this league against a different class of opposition.
    Iโ€™ve said it before and Iโ€™ll say it again. Asking the manager to change his core beliefs is effectively asking for a new manager. If thatโ€™s what you want just come out and say it.

    โ€˜Letโ€™s give it a right old goโ€™ means nothing on a Sunday morning game and means even less with honest proโ€™s. Itโ€™s not a managerial style and it is disrespectful to the effort everyone is putting in. This is a long term project and a sharp turn now would out that all at risk.

  • If you don't think Uche Ikpeazu has stood out I'm not sure what you've been watching

  • I'm sort of with you @Right_in_the_Middle, but I can also empathise with @davecz's position - "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". It may be a bit of an over-used clichรฉ these days, but it seems remarkably apposite to our current season. If we're going down anyway, it seems wasteful to keep playing the same losing tactics every week - all we learn from that is that they still don't work. We have 20 free games to try to find something different that does work, if we don't take that opportunity now we'll likely never get another.

  • Really good points - these 20 games can be a very useful learning experience for if we ever come up again. So instead of a pointless slate of fixtures leading to relegation, they are precious opportunities.

    Some positives:

    1. This is still the most talented Wycombe team in history, and of course will finish in our highest ever position.

    2. It is still likely we are in the middle, rather than the end, of a golden period, where the club develops on and off the pitch. The B Team is one example of that promise.

    3. GA against other L1 managers with a salary cap? Yes please!

    4. We may get Nick Freeman back next season (sorry, could not resist!)

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