I want @Vincey on my side anytime I go in to battle. Amazing persistence arguing a point he believes. Also loving the thought the ref yesterday was thinking about the Italian Super Cup yesterday. Might explain what an awful display he gave throughout the 90 mins and not just for giving a penalty for a guy muffing a clearance as he got kicked from the blindside.
@Vincey said:
They both kick the ball and they both kick each other, it’s a right mess.
Would every ref give a penalty? Absolutely not. But some might and this one did.
Free doesn't kick him, he clatters into his kicking foot on his follow through. That's almost always given as a free kick to the player that's just kicked it
@Forest_Blue I thought canos went down to avoid a booking at the time...the idea he was cleverly and expertly playing for a penalty a la the two incidents mentioned above is laughable.
First I’ve seen of it. And only angle. But terrible decision. But terrible decisions happen a fair bit in football. At home with a crowd though that would have really got the crowd going.
Amusing to watch the ‘defend the indefensible’ antics on here though.
So... sometimes you make an off the cuff remark, sometimes mistakenly, sometimes to be contrary. Sometimes when the facts show such remarks to be, well blatantly wrong, it is better to bow out. But sometimes that hold just needs digging a little bit deeper
@glasshalffull said:
Vincey, I’m sorry but that incident is nothing like yesterday’s and interestingly the referee did not initially give it until his assistant flagged.
It’s similar in that Fred/Van Dyk were going to clear the ball and were not expecting a challenge from an opposing player. Clever play from the attacker to nip in just before knowing that if he gets there first he wins the foul.
Canos actually doesn’t make a good job of it yesterday because he didn’t make great contact with the ball (although he got there first).
There’s undoubtedly a coming together and therefore a decision for the ref to make, if Fred clears early then there’s no decision to be made, is the point that I am making.
As far as relegation, there is a difference between thinking we will be relegated and giving up on the team. The players will not give up (and are paid not to, of course) and I don't think any fans are going to stop watching and give up on the team. There is nothing wrong in looking at that gap and thinking there is a lack of evidence we are likely to bridge it. But every one of us knows a great escape is possible, and would be only too delighted to see it happen. Saying we will escape just to be relentlessly positive does not make it any more likely to happen than wearing lucky socks.
@Quarterman said: @vincey sorry but I’d keep thinking because that incident is not even close to being similar to yesterday. It was never a penalty, no matter how you dress it up.
It meant the game was over as a contest as we were in it until that stage. I don’t think we lost the game because of the decision per se as our defensive game was all over the place and more than likely Brentford would have won anyway, but it robbed us of any chance we did have.
I’m not claiming it was a blatant penalty, it actually looked more of a penalty in real time to me and that’s why I can see why it was given. Would VAR have ruled it out? Who knows.
Realistically Brentford looked like they would score every time they attacked yesterday so I absolutely don’t think it made a difference to the result. We looked dangerous upfront and I’ve been really impressed with our attacking play, but defensively we have been awful recently.
Of course VAR would have ruled it out, what are you talking about?
It’s a 50/50 collision and the Brentford player got to the ball first. Is it a blatant penalty? No. Is it a coming together that could have been avoided? Yes.
@Quarterman said: @vincey sorry but I’d keep thinking because that incident is not even close to being similar to yesterday. It was never a penalty, no matter how you dress it up.
It meant the game was over as a contest as we were in it until that stage. I don’t think we lost the game because of the decision per se as our defensive game was all over the place and more than likely Brentford would have won anyway, but it robbed us of any chance we did have.
I’m not claiming it was a blatant penalty, it actually looked more of a penalty in real time to me and that’s why I can see why it was given. Would VAR have ruled it out? Who knows.
Realistically Brentford looked like they would score every time they attacked yesterday so I absolutely don’t think it made a difference to the result. We looked dangerous upfront and I’ve been really impressed with our attacking play, but defensively we have been awful recently.
Of course VAR would have ruled it out, what are you talking about?
It’s a 50/50 collision and the Brentford player got to the ball first. Is it a blatant penalty? No. Is it a coming together that could have been avoided? Yes.
Do you disagree that Fred didn't touch the Brentford player until after the ball had been kicked away. Do yo understand that if matters not a jot which player touched the ball 1st?
@EwanHoosaami said:
Do you disagree that Fred didn't touch the Brentford player until after the ball had been kicked away. Do yo understand that if matters not a jot which player touched the ball 1st?
If the Brentford player doesn’t touch the ball then Fred just clears the ball up the pitch normally and then the only decision that could be given (if any) is a free kick to Wycombe.
That is why the touch by the Brentford player is significant, because if Canos doesn’t touch the ball then in no way can he earn a foul.
@EwanHoosaami said:
Do you disagree that Fred didn't touch the Brentford player until after the ball had been kicked away. Do yo understand that if matters not a jot which player touched the ball 1st?
If the Brentford player doesn’t touch the ball then Fred just clears the ball up the pitch normally and then the only decision that could be given (if any) is a free kick to Wycombe.
That is why the touch by the Brentford player is significant, because if Canos doesn’t touch the ball then in no way can he earn a foul.
this is becoming boring ..its never a penalty , please accept and move on
So, Player A touches the ball & player B then tackles him clearing the ball cleanly, it is a foul because Player A touched it 1st? Now that is a weird perspective by any standards. You did see that Canos threw himself into Freds path didn't you?
@EwanHoosaami said:
So, Player A touches the ball & player B then tackles him clearing the ball cleanly, it is a foul because Player A touched it 1st? Now that is a weird perspective by any standards. You did see that Canos threw himself into Freds path didn't you?
I’m talking in real time, 100 miles per hour, a 50/50 collision, without the aid of replays, could be given either way.
If it was cleared first time it would never have got that far, regardless of incident Brentford were too strong for us yesterday and would have won anyway.
I do wonder, if and when the whole management team have their end of season inquest, if they will continue with the direct/percentage game. Or come to the conclusion that we must try and play through the thirds, and carve out chances through great movement and slick passing
I think this is an interesting point. Can Ainsworth play any other way? Is he a victim of our constraints on budget and therefore we have to play direct. Does he feel if we play through the thirds , we will get spanked every week? We have some creative players at the club but we bypass them on a regular basis to get it upfront quickly. My feeling is for the remainder of this season we will continue to lump it forward quickly and hope to create chances that way.
@Vincey you maniac, even when watching a clear slow mo, from the perfect angle, and seeing Fred cleanly kicks the ball away without touching their man, you're still arguing?!
Get back to your normally perfectly reasoned posting please brother.
@Shev said:
As far as relegation, there is a difference between thinking we will be relegated and giving up on the team. The players will not give up (and are paid not to, of course) and I don't think any fans are going to stop watching and give up on the team. There is nothing wrong in looking at that gap and thinking there is a lack of evidence we are likely to bridge it. But every one of us knows a great escape is possible, and would be only too delighted to see it happen. Saying we will escape just to be relentlessly positive does not make it any more likely to happen than wearing lucky socks.
Well put. I think we will be relegated but I’ll watch every game at home or in person at AP if we ever get there again this season. I’ll applaud everything I can this season and next and the one after. And I think the Couhigs have got it pretty right so far. If me thinking we’ll be relegated makes it somehow more likely then let me know and I’ll have a bloody good think about winning the Euromillions and the club can have a decent percentage.
I understand why some people think it’s all over, but there have been some amazing escape stories over the years and there’s no reason why we should be despondent just yet.
I think yesterday’s score line has added to the belief that we will be relegated, but let’s not forget that Luton stayed up despite losing 7-0 at Brentford last season. And Liverpool lost 7-2 against Villa this season so we’re in good company!
@glasshalffull said:
I understand why some people think it’s all over, but there have been some amazing escape stories over the years and there’s no reason why we should be despondent just yet.
I think yesterday’s score line has added to the belief that we will be relegated, but let’s not forget that Luton stayed up despite losing 7-0 at Brentford last season. And Liverpool lost 7-2 against Villa this season so we’re in good company!
Luton were 1 point clear of the bottom 3 at the half way stage last season.
We're 11 points behind.
However, I'm sure we all take your point, that being negative is a self fulfilling prophecy. From the player, not us, as like @Manboobs says above, how we feel about it won't change it. Especially as we're not in the grounds.
Do you disagree that the Brentford player touched the ball first?
Brentford player touches ball. Fred kicks ball away. How in the name of god does that scenario justify a penalty?
It was clear at normal speed that, based on the direction the ball comes out that, Fred had played the ball and the Brentford player then collided with him.
Is there anywhere else where a team gets stuffed 7-2, is rock bottom in the division but the only thing that seems to matter to the chattering fans is (as ever!) a single decision by the ref. And to think there are people on here that took pleasure in laughing at the Sunderland and Peterborough fan forums! I wonder who's laughing now?
@Doob is right. All this discussing a so called important incident in the match stuff on this game thread on a football forum is just embarrassing. Real non-chattering fans have moved on.
Comments
They both kick the ball and they both kick each other, it’s a right mess.
Would every ref give a penalty? Absolutely not. But some might and this one did.
And he was completely wrong to do so.
I want @Vincey on my side anytime I go in to battle. Amazing persistence arguing a point he believes. Also loving the thought the ref yesterday was thinking about the Italian Super Cup yesterday. Might explain what an awful display he gave throughout the 90 mins and not just for giving a penalty for a guy muffing a clearance as he got kicked from the blindside.
Free doesn't kick him, he clatters into his kicking foot on his follow through. That's almost always given as a free kick to the player that's just kicked it
@Forest_Blue I thought canos went down to avoid a booking at the time...the idea he was cleverly and expertly playing for a penalty a la the two incidents mentioned above is laughable.
First I’ve seen of it. And only angle. But terrible decision. But terrible decisions happen a fair bit in football. At home with a crowd though that would have really got the crowd going.
Amusing to watch the ‘defend the indefensible’ antics on here though.
So... sometimes you make an off the cuff remark, sometimes mistakenly, sometimes to be contrary. Sometimes when the facts show such remarks to be, well blatantly wrong, it is better to bow out. But sometimes that hold just needs digging a little bit deeper
As far as relegation, there is a difference between thinking we will be relegated and giving up on the team. The players will not give up (and are paid not to, of course) and I don't think any fans are going to stop watching and give up on the team. There is nothing wrong in looking at that gap and thinking there is a lack of evidence we are likely to bridge it. But every one of us knows a great escape is possible, and would be only too delighted to see it happen. Saying we will escape just to be relentlessly positive does not make it any more likely to happen than wearing lucky socks.
Do you disagree that the Brentford player touched the ball first?
Do you disagree that Fred didn't touch the Brentford player until after the ball had been kicked away. Do yo understand that if matters not a jot which player touched the ball 1st?
If this is a wind up then fair play to Vincey, he's had us all on toast
I never thought I'd see a Wycombe player play as badly as James Harper did away at Brentford, until yesterday...
Bring on The Brummies, let's put them to the sword.
If the Brentford player doesn’t touch the ball then Fred just clears the ball up the pitch normally and then the only decision that could be given (if any) is a free kick to Wycombe.
That is why the touch by the Brentford player is significant, because if Canos doesn’t touch the ball then in no way can he earn a foul.
this is becoming boring ..its never a penalty , please accept and move on
So, Player A touches the ball & player B then tackles him clearing the ball cleanly, it is a foul because Player A touched it 1st? Now that is a weird perspective by any standards. You did see that Canos threw himself into Freds path didn't you?
Somebody please wake me up when this one-sided “debate” peters out.
I’m talking in real time, 100 miles per hour, a 50/50 collision, without the aid of replays, could be given either way.
If it was cleared first time it would never have got that far, regardless of incident Brentford were too strong for us yesterday and would have won anyway.
Last I’m going to say on the matter.
I think this is an interesting point. Can Ainsworth play any other way? Is he a victim of our constraints on budget and therefore we have to play direct. Does he feel if we play through the thirds , we will get spanked every week? We have some creative players at the club but we bypass them on a regular basis to get it upfront quickly. My feeling is for the remainder of this season we will continue to lump it forward quickly and hope to create chances that way.
The biggest giveaway that it wasn't a penalty was Pinnock laughing in disbelief when it was given.
last I’m going to say on the matter.
Possibly the only sensible contribution you have made to this particular debate!
We better wake up @micra now!
@Vincey you maniac, even when watching a clear slow mo, from the perfect angle, and seeing Fred cleanly kicks the ball away without touching their man, you're still arguing?!
Get back to your normally perfectly reasoned posting please brother.
When even most opposition fans do not think it is a penalty...it's really not a penalty.
Well put. I think we will be relegated but I’ll watch every game at home or in person at AP if we ever get there again this season. I’ll applaud everything I can this season and next and the one after. And I think the Couhigs have got it pretty right so far. If me thinking we’ll be relegated makes it somehow more likely then let me know and I’ll have a bloody good think about winning the Euromillions and the club can have a decent percentage.
I understand why some people think it’s all over, but there have been some amazing escape stories over the years and there’s no reason why we should be despondent just yet.
I think yesterday’s score line has added to the belief that we will be relegated, but let’s not forget that Luton stayed up despite losing 7-0 at Brentford last season. And Liverpool lost 7-2 against Villa this season so we’re in good company!
Luton were 1 point clear of the bottom 3 at the half way stage last season.
We're 11 points behind.
However, I'm sure we all take your point, that being negative is a self fulfilling prophecy. From the player, not us, as like @Manboobs says above, how we feel about it won't change it. Especially as we're not in the grounds.
Brentford player touches ball. Fred kicks ball away. How in the name of god does that scenario justify a penalty?
It was clear at normal speed that, based on the direction the ball comes out that, Fred had played the ball and the Brentford player then collided with him.
Is there anywhere else where a team gets stuffed 7-2, is rock bottom in the division but the only thing that seems to matter to the chattering fans is (as ever!) a single decision by the ref. And to think there are people on here that took pleasure in laughing at the Sunderland and Peterborough fan forums! I wonder who's laughing now?
@Doob is right. All this discussing a so called important incident in the match stuff on this game thread on a football forum is just embarrassing. Real non-chattering fans have moved on.