Realistically we need to hope that Uche and Tafazolli are the gamechangers they've looked in their couple of games, that Stewart/Gape/Adeniran get back to full fitness soon. And that Gareth can perhaps uncover one amazing gem from nowhere.
Anybody would think that moving players around is as easy as playing against yourself at chess! There are an incredible amount of moving parts to player recruitment alone. Then double that & more if you have to get players out of the squad before adding others. For example, "player A I'm going to make you available for loan", player A responds by saying, "well I don't want to go on loan, I have a contract here and I am going to see it out", (Ozil as a prime illustration). "Player B your next, Yeovil have offered to take you, player B responds with "I'm not going down there to live with the pig fuckers"! Player C, I've managed to get you a loan spell with Stevenage, but they aren't prepared to take on most of your wages, will you go and get paid less, but you are pretty much guaranteed a game each week. "No thanks guv, I'm poorly paid enough as it is".
Then we have the problem of finding better players willing to play for WWFC more than the ££££s we can offer. GA eventually finds one but his agent wants more than we can afford. We can have a.n.other on loan from Chelsea, but they aren't willing to let him come unless we can guarantee we play him almost every game, but it takes the best part of a month before he is remotely Wycomised! Are Chelsea willing to subsidise his wages enough for us to afford him. I suspect the problem with signing Josh Knight will not simply be the offer we have put in, but the money we can pay him & the fact that there maybe clubs higher up the pecking order that are willing to invest more money in wages. Obviously our USP will be that he has spent time here & has a good idea of how he will be looked after. Josh may have other offers yet, as his agent may have already put the feelers out & given how many of his performances have had rave reviews, I can imagine that there will be a few other interested parties.
So much easier playing Championship manager on an Xbox eh!
I think it might have been a different picture now if Tafazolli and Uche had been fit from game 1. Apart from their combined ability, it would have probably allowed Knight to play alongside Thompson in midfield. Life is always an "if" though
And a happy new year to you @aloysius took me while to read that through my rose tinted glasses. I'm not sure who the romantics are on the Gasroom though.
@Last_Quarter said:
The view that we didn't invest loads in the summer but we should invest now is a weird one to me. Let's be honest, we're 23 games closer to relegation now and it's going to take a minor miracle from this point to keep us up. It's far more risky to throw money around now then it was in August when we had 46 games to influence, before you even consider the deteriorating balance sheet given its now increasingly likely we're not going to see the benefit of increased attendances at AP at all this season.
This is spot on. It might be different if we were right on the cut line, and needed one little push, but the percentages of staying up are so low now that it would be hugely risky.
If we do go down, we are going to have a heck of a L1 outfit next season, even if we have to move a few on. Feel free to correct me, but even if Knight goes, I think a starting back four of Grimmer, Taffs, Tools and JJ are all under contract for next season (can't remember if Grimmer signed a 2 or a 3 year, but I think the latter?). Keeping teams to two goals and under in the Championship equates to a lot of clean sheets in L1, much like we saw last season. Even though McCleary is only on a one year and will be gone, and we may lose a few others to offers and/or retirement, I can see a really good L1 squad.
My biggest worry at the start of the season was how many tonkings we would take and what impact it would have on morale before we could reap the rewards for having kept a tight ship this season and left ourselves with a competitive budget for the following season in League One. We have since proven ourselves to be able to compete at this level with a squad shorn of vital players in key positions, who knows what miracles we could pull off with something approaching a full-strength squad? I think we can expect maybe a few reinforcements, though most likely players for the development squad to bring through in the future rather than anyone we can hang our hat on to keep us up.
If we do go down and don't have to make wholesale changes to the squad, I would be confident of being able to finish in the top 10 in League One, if not be in the mix at the top again.
With regards to the Couhigs selling up, their market would realistically be someone with far more money than sense looking to buy a club at an inflated price beause if its Championship status, with little prospect of being more than a steady League 1 side without sustained overachievement on the pitch, or throwing their money down the drain to sustain big losses funding a squad that could realistically consistently compete at a higher level. Or someone in a similar position to themselves who would execute the plan the Couhigs have set out.
I'm not saying it's completely impossible, just somewhat improbable at this stage.
@ReadingMarginalista said:
My biggest worry at the start of the season was how many tonkings we would take and what impact it would have on morale before we could reap the rewards for having kept a tight ship this season and left ourselves with a competitive budget for the following season in League One. We have since proven ourselves to be able to compete at this level with a squad shorn of vital players in key positions, who knows what miracles we could pull off with something approaching a full-strength squad? I think we can expect maybe a few reinforcements, though most likely players for the development squad to bring through in the future rather than anyone we can hang our hat on to keep us up.
If we do go down and don't have to make wholesale changes to the squad, I would be confident of being able to finish in the top 10 in League One, if not be in the mix at the top again.
>
I agree. Staying up was always a massive long shot. It makes sense to aim for a balance between a team capable of competing this season, but also having a strong side for 21/22 in the very likely event we are back in League 1. The back four you mention is strong, while the addition of Horgan and Ikpeazu gives more quality in attack. We’ve got the foundation for a good side next season to compete at the top end of League 1. If it happens to be playing in the Championship that’s a huge bonus.
Perhaps the most difficult part will be keeping the right spirit and culture with the group given that this is probably the final season for Charles, Bayo and Blooms.
I see no reason to invest heavily, other than Knight and possibly one other. We have the basis of a squad without injuries that could stay in the Championship and be high end Lge1
A team dropping down to League 1 from the Championship can only have a squad of 22, plus U21’s.
One thing is for sure, that the pessimism exhibited here about our chances of staying up isn't shared by those making the decisions.
It’s certainly going to be a tough task, but we are currently just four points away from safety and shortly face three of the teams close to us. A decent haul of points from those games could make all the difference and we only have to aim for place number 21 to give us the key of the door to another season in the Championship.
@floyd said:
One thing is for sure, that the pessimism exhibited here about our chances of staying up isn't shared by those making the decisions.
I think many of us don’t believe we are good enough with the injuries we’ve had and we are currently not good enough. With a near full squad I think we have a good chance of staying up.
If, as many suggest, business is all about having a powerful Div3 side next season then I hope we pull off a couple of internal bits of business: tie down the B team players who have made Championship appearances, and as importantly give McCleary a further two year deal, for me the best signing this season.
The 10 league games we are playing in January and February , 7 are against teams below half way in the League. Clearly Brentford, Reading and Norwich the other 3 , it would be difficult to see us getting much but the others do represent at least some hope we can pick up points and have a fighting chance of staying up.
@davecz said:
The 10 league games we are playing in January and February , 7 are against teams below half way in the League. Clearly Brentford, Reading and Norwich the other 3 , it would be difficult to see us getting much but the others do represent at least some hope we can pick up points and have a fighting chance of staying up.
Hard to see how we can stay up if you dismiss getting any points from top half sides so easily. We were a cheating dive away from a point at Norwich and took Brentford to penalties.
The other point on this is placing so much importance on the other games adds pressure and creates a whole load of moaning when we don't win the next 'must win' match.
We can beat anyone in this league and we can stay up.
A few thoughts from me, probably shouldn't as the original post is fairly obviously a wind up:
-I've tended to view the Couhigs as more having a go, thinking they know better than some, and having something to offer that could do well rather than instantly being in it for an immediate return or massive sale within a couple of years. If we were to stay up or go up again and become semi regular fixtures in the championship with increased revenues and low debt we would be a safe bet to sell on at some point and they can have some fun without losing more than pocket change. Hospitality, increased pricing and a bit of football fortune (remember that one) could make us reasonably desirable in the silly world of football finance. As others have said the investments off the pitch are part neccesity due to the place being run down and Championship rules and part with the aim of increasing revenues.
-Its probably based on one game but if Taff and Uche were the big signings in the summer and haven't been able to deliver due to injuries isn't it reasonable to think they will have a big impact.
-How much could you spend and still be uncompetitive? an absolute fortune in wages and fees "invested" now wouldn't take us to midway in the table on budgets and tying us in for several years of higher wages could be a disaster.
-Gaz and Dobbo will get some cash surely but it'll probably be the rare finds and unknowns that they have done so well with. RC isn't naive and won't throw money away. See Will Grigg deadline day for Sunderland.
-FM on Xbox is awful for all the reasons it hasn't been on there previously.
@Chris said:
I’d be very surprised if McCleary is playing in League 1 next year.
Fairly sure he's local, he'll be 34, It took him several months to get a club this season, he's looked great but good crosses and a couple of goals great - not leading scorer in the division great, and we have a reputation for looking after older players, I don't think it is unlikely at all that he might want to stay should we go down.
Interestingly though I can't find the post in question, McCleary put on Instagram that he had fallen out of love with the game and was close to retirement when he signed, and thanked the club for rekindling his love with football. Seems a familiar and very Wycombised story.
@Brownie said:
Interestingly though I can't find the post in question, McCleary put on Instagram that he had fallen out of love with the game and was close to retirement when he signed, and thanked the club for rekindling his love with football. Seems a familiar and very Wycombised story.
I wonder if he knows or spoke to Nathan Tyson with the Reading connection. Would have been an interesting conversation based on where he was when he came back for what sounded more like a bit of fitness work than a trial initially.
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
You see I don't get it the other way round. He's got something a bit different, but never does quite enough to keep his place.
And it's still quite hard to work out what position he's best suited to all these years on.
@Brownie said:
Interestingly though I can't find the post in question, McCleary put on Instagram that he had fallen out of love with the game and was close to retirement when he signed, and thanked the club for rekindling his love with football. Seems a familiar and very Wycombised story.
Definitely looks to be the case. I dare say the division McCleary plays in next year depends on what division we're playing in, if anything.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
Certainly has skill and ability, but I feel he is to lightweight and short of stamina for the type of football we play.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
Certainly has skill and ability, but I feel he is to lightweight and short of stamina for the type of football we play.
I think some of us see his apparent ability to hold and pass as more desirable than the worse tired times spent hoofing the ball at Bayo or just forward, and it coming straight back. Retaining the ball rather than winning it twice maybe. Fair to say it's a lot more complicated as the manager will set tactics for whoever plays and he won't fill in at the back like Gape does well or run all day like Pattison/Blooms . Also have to say he hasn't been consistent, but can't see how you do that without a run. May not be the long term answer but you'd be gutted if he ended up doing it for someone else.
Comments
Realistically we need to hope that Uche and Tafazolli are the gamechangers they've looked in their couple of games, that Stewart/Gape/Adeniran get back to full fitness soon. And that Gareth can perhaps uncover one amazing gem from nowhere.
I think Malone is spot on.
Anybody would think that moving players around is as easy as playing against yourself at chess! There are an incredible amount of moving parts to player recruitment alone. Then double that & more if you have to get players out of the squad before adding others. For example, "player A I'm going to make you available for loan", player A responds by saying, "well I don't want to go on loan, I have a contract here and I am going to see it out", (Ozil as a prime illustration). "Player B your next, Yeovil have offered to take you, player B responds with "I'm not going down there to live with the pig fuckers"! Player C, I've managed to get you a loan spell with Stevenage, but they aren't prepared to take on most of your wages, will you go and get paid less, but you are pretty much guaranteed a game each week. "No thanks guv, I'm poorly paid enough as it is".
Then we have the problem of finding better players willing to play for WWFC more than the ££££s we can offer. GA eventually finds one but his agent wants more than we can afford. We can have a.n.other on loan from Chelsea, but they aren't willing to let him come unless we can guarantee we play him almost every game, but it takes the best part of a month before he is remotely Wycomised! Are Chelsea willing to subsidise his wages enough for us to afford him. I suspect the problem with signing Josh Knight will not simply be the offer we have put in, but the money we can pay him & the fact that there maybe clubs higher up the pecking order that are willing to invest more money in wages. Obviously our USP will be that he has spent time here & has a good idea of how he will be looked after. Josh may have other offers yet, as his agent may have already put the feelers out & given how many of his performances have had rave reviews, I can imagine that there will be a few other interested parties.
So much easier playing Championship manager on an Xbox eh!
Speak for yourself. I’ve managed to take us down to the Isthmian South Central Division
I think it might have been a different picture now if Tafazolli and Uche had been fit from game 1. Apart from their combined ability, it would have probably allowed Knight to play alongside Thompson in midfield. Life is always an "if" though
Did we bring Knight in because Tafazolli was injured medium term though?
We may not have moved for him.
I guess we'll not know unless we asked!
I wonder when Stewart is back. He's gone from having a chance of playing the next game to not a mention since.
And a happy new year to you @aloysius took me while to read that through my rose tinted glasses. I'm not sure who the romantics are on the Gasroom though.
Scott & Charlene are regulars but I won't give their usernames away.
This is spot on. It might be different if we were right on the cut line, and needed one little push, but the percentages of staying up are so low now that it would be hugely risky.
If we do go down, we are going to have a heck of a L1 outfit next season, even if we have to move a few on. Feel free to correct me, but even if Knight goes, I think a starting back four of Grimmer, Taffs, Tools and JJ are all under contract for next season (can't remember if Grimmer signed a 2 or a 3 year, but I think the latter?). Keeping teams to two goals and under in the Championship equates to a lot of clean sheets in L1, much like we saw last season. Even though McCleary is only on a one year and will be gone, and we may lose a few others to offers and/or retirement, I can see a really good L1 squad.
My biggest worry at the start of the season was how many tonkings we would take and what impact it would have on morale before we could reap the rewards for having kept a tight ship this season and left ourselves with a competitive budget for the following season in League One. We have since proven ourselves to be able to compete at this level with a squad shorn of vital players in key positions, who knows what miracles we could pull off with something approaching a full-strength squad? I think we can expect maybe a few reinforcements, though most likely players for the development squad to bring through in the future rather than anyone we can hang our hat on to keep us up.
If we do go down and don't have to make wholesale changes to the squad, I would be confident of being able to finish in the top 10 in League One, if not be in the mix at the top again.
With regards to the Couhigs selling up, their market would realistically be someone with far more money than sense looking to buy a club at an inflated price beause if its Championship status, with little prospect of being more than a steady League 1 side without sustained overachievement on the pitch, or throwing their money down the drain to sustain big losses funding a squad that could realistically consistently compete at a higher level. Or someone in a similar position to themselves who would execute the plan the Couhigs have set out.
I'm not saying it's completely impossible, just somewhat improbable at this stage.
>
I agree. Staying up was always a massive long shot. It makes sense to aim for a balance between a team capable of competing this season, but also having a strong side for 21/22 in the very likely event we are back in League 1. The back four you mention is strong, while the addition of Horgan and Ikpeazu gives more quality in attack. We’ve got the foundation for a good side next season to compete at the top end of League 1. If it happens to be playing in the Championship that’s a huge bonus.
Perhaps the most difficult part will be keeping the right spirit and culture with the group given that this is probably the final season for Charles, Bayo and Blooms.
I see no reason to invest heavily, other than Knight and possibly one other. We have the basis of a squad without injuries that could stay in the Championship and be high end Lge1
A team dropping down to League 1 from the Championship can only have a squad of 22, plus U21’s.
One thing is for sure, that the pessimism exhibited here about our chances of staying up isn't shared by those making the decisions.
@floyd said:
It’s certainly going to be a tough task, but we are currently just four points away from safety and shortly face three of the teams close to us. A decent haul of points from those games could make all the difference and we only have to aim for place number 21 to give us the key of the door to another season in the Championship.
I think many of us don’t believe we are good enough with the injuries we’ve had and we are currently not good enough. With a near full squad I think we have a good chance of staying up.
When you look at it from the 4 points off safety position we look to still have every chance.
When people start calculating points required and bandy about talk of needing another 9-10 wins then it looks impossible.
4 points off angle it is then!
If we have +20 points by the end of January we will have a fighting chance of survival.
If, as many suggest, business is all about having a powerful Div3 side next season then I hope we pull off a couple of internal bits of business: tie down the B team players who have made Championship appearances, and as importantly give McCleary a further two year deal, for me the best signing this season.
The 10 league games we are playing in January and February , 7 are against teams below half way in the League. Clearly Brentford, Reading and Norwich the other 3 , it would be difficult to see us getting much but the others do represent at least some hope we can pick up points and have a fighting chance of staying up.
Hard to see how we can stay up if you dismiss getting any points from top half sides so easily. We were a cheating dive away from a point at Norwich and took Brentford to penalties.
The other point on this is placing so much importance on the other games adds pressure and creates a whole load of moaning when we don't win the next 'must win' match.
We can beat anyone in this league and we can stay up.
A few thoughts from me, probably shouldn't as the original post is fairly obviously a wind up:
-I've tended to view the Couhigs as more having a go, thinking they know better than some, and having something to offer that could do well rather than instantly being in it for an immediate return or massive sale within a couple of years. If we were to stay up or go up again and become semi regular fixtures in the championship with increased revenues and low debt we would be a safe bet to sell on at some point and they can have some fun without losing more than pocket change. Hospitality, increased pricing and a bit of football fortune (remember that one) could make us reasonably desirable in the silly world of football finance. As others have said the investments off the pitch are part neccesity due to the place being run down and Championship rules and part with the aim of increasing revenues.
-Its probably based on one game but if Taff and Uche were the big signings in the summer and haven't been able to deliver due to injuries isn't it reasonable to think they will have a big impact.
-How much could you spend and still be uncompetitive? an absolute fortune in wages and fees "invested" now wouldn't take us to midway in the table on budgets and tying us in for several years of higher wages could be a disaster.
-Gaz and Dobbo will get some cash surely but it'll probably be the rare finds and unknowns that they have done so well with. RC isn't naive and won't throw money away. See Will Grigg deadline day for Sunderland.
-FM on Xbox is awful for all the reasons it hasn't been on there previously.
I’d be very surprised if McCleary is playing in League 1 next year.
Fairly sure he's local, he'll be 34, It took him several months to get a club this season, he's looked great but good crosses and a couple of goals great - not leading scorer in the division great, and we have a reputation for looking after older players, I don't think it is unlikely at all that he might want to stay should we go down.
Interestingly though I can't find the post in question, McCleary put on Instagram that he had fallen out of love with the game and was close to retirement when he signed, and thanked the club for rekindling his love with football. Seems a familiar and very Wycombised story.
I wonder if he knows or spoke to Nathan Tyson with the Reading connection. Would have been an interesting conversation based on where he was when he came back for what sounded more like a bit of fitness work than a trial initially.
Lots of stuff to take in here. But one point I feel passionate about... Nick Freeman. I just don't get it. Never let us down. When he played the other week in what was an unfamiliar position he showed a calm head and a lot of ability. Now can't buy minutes. A real blindspot imho and I just don't get it.
You see I don't get it the other way round. He's got something a bit different, but never does quite enough to keep his place.
And it's still quite hard to work out what position he's best suited to all these years on.
Definitely looks to be the case. I dare say the division McCleary plays in next year depends on what division we're playing in, if anything.
Certainly has skill and ability, but I feel he is to lightweight and short of stamina for the type of football we play.
I think some of us see his apparent ability to hold and pass as more desirable than the worse tired times spent hoofing the ball at Bayo or just forward, and it coming straight back. Retaining the ball rather than winning it twice maybe. Fair to say it's a lot more complicated as the manager will set tactics for whoever plays and he won't fill in at the back like Gape does well or run all day like Pattison/Blooms . Also have to say he hasn't been consistent, but can't see how you do that without a run. May not be the long term answer but you'd be gutted if he ended up doing it for someone else.