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Match day thread: Coventry

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  • @NewburyWanderer said:

    @davecz said:
    Were Millwall right that Fred cannot compete in the Championship? A step too far?

    I think that Fred's issue may be a lack of confidence. If he can get on the scoresheet somehow soon, however fortunately, he may turn the corner. I really hope he does, preferably against Millwall away.

    I thought Fred would kick on this season. I hope it’s a lack of confidence and not competence. As for Horgan, as said that final ball... McCleary I like a lot. Beats
    his man and can get a decent ball into the box.

    Regarding spending in the transfer window, I don’t think it’s the way to go. If we go down we go down with heads held high and money in the bank to strengthen the squad. I hope, post covid, the supporter base will grow even in league one as long as we are doing well. Improved match day experience and all that. More supporters means more revenue for a return with a bigger playing budget. We’ve shown we can get close to staying up with what we have in a season with no-one there to watch. We’re drawing or losing by a goal, it’s not a weekly drubbing and a manager at war with his players. I don’t see relegation as the psychological wrecking ball it can be for some clubs.

    That said, to argue against myself, the economic uncertainties of a post covid no deal Brexit England may mean a much lower match day spend from supporters and all the Cajun spice and Rebellion in the world may not be enough to get people through the gates. Maybe we should empty the piggy bank in January?

    Who’d be a football club owner?

    (My dream scenario is that we are in touch in January and a couple of loanees that we can afford come in who tear up trees. An Eze and a Mawson if you will)

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  • At the moment it's panning out exactly as i remember reading some bitter Oxford fan's forecast.

    About 5 wins, record low points and instant relegation.

    However, while we are on course for all of these, the key stat is points off 21st. While that stays at 6 or fewer, we have a real chance of finding something to turn it round.

  • @Manboobs think we already have the "Mawson" in the club. Knight has been outstanding. Maybe, if we can get Tafazoli/Charles fit, we could move Knight forward into midfield whilst Thompson and Adenerin get match fit?

  • I wish we could find a young Jermaine Defoe or Harry Kane .... we need goals !

  • @davecz said:
    @Glenactico - unfortunately I think you are being incredibly optimistic if you think we can end up 21st. How we are performing is a reflection of our financial position. We clearly have not got enough Championship quality.

    I think you are being incredibly pessimistic when there are 28 games left to play and I thought we weren’t allowed to mention our financial constraints.

  • edited December 2020

    @glasshalffull As someone who has probably seen many more Championship matches I'd been interested in your views on the level of cheating in this league. Yesterday was a depressing stream of tiny screams, players falling over and the ref bliw his whistle. For me it was unwatchable as a spectacle. 38 free kicks in about 55 mins of playing time says it all.
    Do you think cheating is increasing and do you see it as an across the board problem in this league? We left League One with a reputation from certain rival clubs and supporters. So far this season we've looked naive in the darker arts to the point of losing points as a direct result.
    Finally who do you think is responsible? Clubs taking advantage of poor officials or just awful refereeing?
    I was fully ready to cope with a struggle this season. I just wasn't ready for every games to show case so many divers and cheats.

  • I’m actually reasonably pleased with how we have adapted to the Championship. The early, ‘pre-season’ aspect was always going to be a steep learning curve but I think at this stage of the season being difficult to play against/beat is where we need to be.

    We managed to compete pretty well yesterday even without 2 key players in Stewart and Thompson. That’s a vast improvement from the early games.

    We aren’t exactly getting the rub of the green with refereeing decisions (the ref yesterday was far too whistle-happy and I thought had a poor game) and making a few too many individual mistakes.

    Going forwards however is obviously the main problem. I do think we have the players to create chances but at the moment they are sporadic and when we do get it spot on we then do something to cock it up (yesterday Pattison tripping over, Horgan’s awful cross from inside the box).

    But in fairness we’ve had little chance to work on getting it right with all these games, so I think staying in touching distance of safety is the key at the moment, which in spite of all our problems (awful start, key injuries) we somehow still are.

    I also worry about people’s expectations about Uche. He won’t be our saviour this season. It was always a big ask even without his injury lay-off. His coming back will allow Bayo to get more rest and I’m sure he’ll cause a few problems, but he won’t suddenly allow us to become free-scoring.

    Getting the forward parts to all gel in the various permutations is what will save us (or not)

  • @EwanHoosaami said:
    @Manboobs think we already have the "Mawson" in the club. Knight has been outstanding. Maybe, if we can get Tafazoli/Charles fit, we could move Knight forward into midfield whilst Thompson and Adenerin get match fit?

    I agree about Knight. My player of the season so far. I believe we have to hand him back in January. If we can keep him and find the Eze on loan then it’s game on.

  • Thought Josh Knight was very good yesterday and would be great in defence or midfield if we can keep him depending on who else is available around him.
    On the dark arts side it's inevitable that there will be quicker and smarter players in this division. I do think the refs have been largely terrible and favoured bigger clubs but we need to spend more time in the opposition box if we want to take advantage.

  • Like @bookertease I've actually been really impressed with how we've adapted to the Championship. We had a couple of early eye openers (Blackburn, 1st half V Swansea) but since then, it's only been the Barnsley game on Wednesday where we've really struggled. It is just the little bit of quality in the final 3rd that we're missing, other than that we've been very competitive.

    Injuries are a big issue at the moment, as per last season, we're a match for anyone with a fully fit squad. Take a few players out however (last Christmas/New Year) and we struggle.

    We do still have a chance of staying up in m opinion. Staying in touch with the teams above over the festive period will be crucial. Then we if can strengthen in January, perhaps we can kick on. Even if we do go down though, we'll be in a much stronger position to be fully competitive in League 1.

  • @Right_in_the_Middle said:
    @glasshalffull As someone who has probably seen many more Championship matches I'd been interested in your views on the level of cheating in this league. Yesterday was a depressing stream of tiny screams, players falling over and the ref bliw his whistle. For me it was unwatchable as a spectacle. 38 free kicks in about 55 mins of playing time says it all.
    Do you think cheating is increasing and do you see it as an across the board problem in this league? We left League One with a reputation from certain rival clubs and supporters. So far this season we've looked naive in the darker arts to the point of losing points as a direct result.
    Finally who do you think is responsible? Clubs taking advantage of poor officials or just awful refereeing?
    I was fully ready to cope with a struggle this season. I just wasn't ready for every games to show case so many divers and cheats.

    I think gamesmanship has always been rife in football which is why I get frustrated when some of our fans highlight Wycombe’s ‘dark arts’ as if we are the only guilty party. Regarding the ‘tiny screams’ from players trying to win free kicks, I have noticed that, but it could be that they are easier to hear in empty or sparsely filled grounds.
    I think we had a particularly fussy referee yesterday and that led to the stop-start nature of the game. I think he lost control, perfectly illustrated when he got in the way of one of our attacks before stopping play and handing the ball to the Coventry goalkeeper!
    Frankly, I’ve been disappointed by refereeing standards so far and it’s no coincidence that the best official we’ve had is Lee Mason, a PL ref.
    The introduction of VAR in the PL has led to fewer examples of gamesmanship at that level because players know they will be found out, but that does not apply in the Championship.
    Sadly, it’s part and parcel of professional football that players will try to con officials and its a very difficult, almost impossible thing to eradicate.

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  • We never do well vs Cov. Thought first half we looked OK for periods and then Cov came forward at speed and a score, we looked much better after the three subs but was surprised when Horgan came off as he and Gmac seem to link up well and be on th same wave length. I can't get worked up about the ref, yes he fell for everything but we shouldn't put ourselves in that position, it does like we are due a chunk of good fortune ref wise soon. It does seem like we are unable to put out the same team twice and have to almost plug holes in certain areas. Not too unhappy as we've played worse against Cov but would've been nice for SKs goal to stand at the end, a freeze frame shows (to me) that he was played on by the defender on the linos side....but I'm sure one of SKs pesky finger tips drifted offside....
    Good to see crowds back, can't wait to get back down to AP soon too. COYB

  • @glasshalffull Just seems to me far worse this season to our last couple in League One. We've been pretty switched on to it but this season we are getting bliwn away in the 'dark arts'.
    It's a bit depressing that you see it as part of the game because for me it's turning in to a game I don't enjoy watching. Honest endeavour and the skill of the players are being taken over by what level you cheat at to decide who wins.

    I was expecting to be excited by the takent of some of the opposition players we are now lucky enough to see. I wasn't expecting to be so appalled by their antics to influence referees. Maybe I am as naive as the Wycombe players looked at times yesterday. My head says we need to learn these little screams to win matches but my heart says there has to be a better way. No Championship manager can seriously complain about the standard of refereeing when they condone cheating from their players.

  • edited December 2020

    We didn't lose yesterday because of the referee or because of the gamesmanship of the Coventry team (including a time wasting goalkeeper which all of a sudden we hate)

    We lost because we gave away two really soft goals and hardly created any chances. That's what I'd be concentrating on, and addressing that is what will keep us up.

    Continuing to talk about luck and referees just gives us a convenient excuse

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  • There's a bit of blue-tinted glasses going on here with complaints about opposition fouling. Yes, it's frustrating when they do it, but watching each match on iFollow really brings home how much we do it too.

    Whether it's Samuel and Kashket diving, Bayo wrestling, players giving the odd shove off the ball to wind the opposition up, or playing for the foul and going down at the slightest touch, we're as guilty as any team we've played against. The only element we've eradicated from our game is time wasting, for obvious reasons.

    I suspect we come with a reputation, opposition players look to exploit that and referees are more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt then perhaps they should, but let's not pretend we've made a Damascene conversion from the dark arts to the Corinthian spirit now we've reached the Championship.

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  • @davecz said:
    @Glenactico - unfortunately I think you are being incredibly optimistic if you think we can end up 21st.

    Unfortunately Dave, you're always incredibly pessimistic, so we need a bit of balance on here.

  • @eric_plant said:
    We didn't lose yesterday because of the referee or because of the gamesmanship of the Coventry team (including a time wasting goalkeeper which all of a sudden we hate)

    We lost because we gave away two really soft goals and hardly created any chances. That's what I'd be concentrating on, and addressing that is what will keep us up.

    Continuing to talk about luck and referees just gives us a convenient excuse

    Have to say I agree with this

  • Where did anyone say that we lost because of the referee or Coventry’s gamesmanship? I agree that we should concentrate on our own shortcomings because unfortunately we can’t do anything about refereeing standards.

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  • As it goes, I think we will get something out of Tuesday's game. Bournemouth scoring goals for fun, we're in the middle of a poor run of results, would be just like us to win it

  • @aloysius said:
    There's a bit of blue-tinted glasses going on here with complaints about opposition fouling. Yes, it's frustrating when they do it, but watching each match on iFollow really brings home how much we do it too.

    Whether it's Samuel and Kashket diving, Bayo wrestling, players giving the odd shove off the ball to wind the opposition up, or playing for the foul and going down at the slightest touch, we're as guilty as any team we've played against. The only element we've eradicated from our game is time wasting, for obvious reasons.

    I suspect we come with a reputation, opposition players look to exploit that and referees are more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt then perhaps they should, but let's not pretend we've made a Damascene conversion from the dark arts to the Corinthian spirit now we've reached the Championship.

    Not sure about others views but you've got the totally wrong end of the stick about what I am saying about cheating. We're not really doing anything different to last year where some teams supporters saw us as the cheatiest of all the cheaters. Obviously time wasting isn't something we've needed to worry about but on other areas we look frankly amateurish against sides in this league.

    I've said before about the prevalence of the small scream and subtle fall compared to our more obvious big dive and surrounding the ref. We look like the primary school bully in his first week at big school now. We are getting bullied in some matches and yesterday was a classic example. Their number six scored both goals but also followed the ref around and was in his ear the whole first half.

    So if we are going to control the controllables we need to get better at this aspect of the game. We can't stop others cheating and we can't stop awful refs. I'm just not sure I want to watch football like that. Yesterday had a foul or other stoppage about every minute with accounting for throws, goal kicks etc. If we improve our game management we'll hardly see any football at all

  • @glasshalffull said:

    @davecz said:
    @Glenactico - unfortunately I think you are being incredibly optimistic if you think we can end up 21st. How we are performing is a reflection of our financial position. We clearly have not got enough Championship quality.

    I think you are being incredibly pessimistic when there are 28 games left to play and I thought we weren’t allowed to mention our financial constraints.

    Obviously your almost constant bleating on about the club’s financial position has finally got through to me !!! I will still enjoy this season but I am being realistic not incredibly pessimistic. It’s unbelievable that we got promoted but unfortunately we do not have enough Championship quality players to compete . I am not going to spend my time blaming referees for our failings.

  • And here’s me, @eric_plant, wondering when (if at all) to phone my Bournemouth supporting mate to make my excuses in advance or to wait until after the game in case your little dream comes true. Years ago he phoned me before our match there and, inter alia, he asked who he should look out for. Marcello Trotta was scoring goals for fun at the time so I mentioned him and another forward or midfield player. Can’t remember who. Might have been Stuart Beavon. Ainsworth even. Whatever happened to him?

    The outcome was the usual routine Bournemouth victory, with Marcello barely getting a look in.

    New Year’s Day 2012. And Marcello is still only 28. He scored 8 goals in the eight games he was on loan at Adams Park.

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  • I agree with all you say @Right_in_the_Middle - at the moment we're lacking a player who really does the dark arts well, by which I mean subtly. Luke O'Nein was our last great practitioner, helped by his cherubic good looks and eloquence with referees, I imagine.

  • @davecz said:

    Obviously your almost constant bleating on about the club’s financial position has finally got through to me !!! I will still enjoy this season but I am being realistic not incredibly pessimistic. It’s unbelievable that we got promoted but unfortunately we do not have enough Championship quality players to compete . I am not going to spend my time blaming referees for our failings.

    We have competed well since the opening few games, every defeat has been by the narrowest of margins despite the absence of key players. We are currently one win away from potentially escaping from the bottom 3, and to finish 21st would be a great achievement for a club of our size. There are still 28 games left to play and I’m glad to say that the manager and players don’t share your defeatist attitude.

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  • @glasshalffull said:

    @davecz said:

    Obviously your almost constant bleating on about the club’s financial position has finally got through to me !!! I will still enjoy this season but I am being realistic not incredibly pessimistic. It’s unbelievable that we got promoted but unfortunately we do not have enough Championship quality players to compete . I am not going to spend my time blaming referees for our failings.

    We have competed well since the opening few games, every defeat has been by the narrowest of margins despite the absence of key players. We are currently one win away from potentially escaping from the bottom 3, and to finish 21st would be a great achievement for a club of our size. There are still 28 games left to play and I’m glad to say that the manager and players don’t share your defeatist attitude.

    "We've reached the stage of the season where we know we need to win games. Drawing is all very well but in order not to fall too far behind the pack we need to go and win games."

    That above quote is from Alan Parry, matchday summariser, Preston Vs Wycombe. I knew it would come in handy one day so I transcribed it, @glasshalffull ;)

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  • Our lack of goal threat is clearly the main reason we're not winning games, but Coventry being given a free kick for no reason that led directly to a goal didn't help

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  • @davecz said:

    @glasshalffull said:

    @davecz said:
    @Glenactico - unfortunately I think you are being incredibly optimistic if you think we can end up 21st. How we are performing is a reflection of our financial position. We clearly have not got enough Championship quality.

    I think you are being incredibly pessimistic when there are 28 games left to play and I thought we weren’t allowed to mention our financial constraints.

    Obviously your almost constant bleating on about the club’s financial position has finally got through to me !!! I will still enjoy this season but I am being realistic not incredibly pessimistic. It’s unbelievable that we got promoted but unfortunately we do not have enough Championship quality players to compete . I am not going to spend my time blaming referees for our failings

    If you are enjoying the season but realistically don't think we can compete why keep moaning about us realistically not being able to compete after every game?

  • @aloysius said:

    @glasshalffull said:

    @davecz said:

    Obviously your almost constant bleating on about the club’s financial position has finally got through to me !!! I will still enjoy this season but I am being realistic not incredibly pessimistic. It’s unbelievable that we got promoted but unfortunately we do not have enough Championship quality players to compete . I am not going to spend my time blaming referees for our failings.

    We have competed well since the opening few games, every defeat has been by the narrowest of margins despite the absence of key players. We are currently one win away from potentially escaping from the bottom 3, and to finish 21st would be a great achievement for a club of our size. There are still 28 games left to play and I’m glad to say that the manager and players don’t share your defeatist attitude.

    "We've reached the stage of the season where we know we need to win games. Drawing is all very well but in order not to fall too far behind the pack we need to go and win games."

    That above quote is from Alan Parry, matchday summariser, Preston Vs Wycombe. I knew it would come in handy one day so I transcribed it, @glasshalffull ;)

    I’m glad that you have time to spend on such exhaustive research and that you are so pleased with yourself for doing so. We have reached that point but that doesn’t mean we can’t win the next couple of games, even in your negative world does it?

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  • Still dont agree with @eric_plant and Dean Ashton about Kashket fouling the keeper 😁 but I do agree the referee was not at fault for Fred missing a couple of decent chances or for us not scoring goals! First 20 we had all the possession and no cutting edge.

  • Pattison & McCarthy at mistake for both goals.
    1st goal Pattison mistake followed by the 2nd game in a row of McCarthy backing off and allowing a shot rather than closing down and trying to get a block in.
    2nd goal McCarthy has to do better, definite free kick but with seconds to half time, get between the man and the ball and hopefully get a free kick. Instead he tries to clear but gives the striker a chance to get a toe in it first. Pattison then loses Kelly at the back post and Grimmer gets out jumped.

    We more than matched them yesterday overall but goals win matches. Our issue is every time the oppo get a half chance they score, every time we do we fluff or lines. Whilst both are very difficult chances if we want to have any hope Horgan has to control the ball and score first half when the center back misses his header and Pattison has to get a shot away. We are conceding these types of chances but not putting them away.

    Offside looks correct, Kashkets right foot appears to be beyond the defender. However, the linesman took so long to give it, surely the benefit of doubt should have stayed with us. I almost felt the ref gave the decision and the linesman then put his flag up.

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