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Bayo abused by a Fleetwood "representative"

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  • @Chris said:
    To be clear, the authors of that paper specifically said their decision to withdraw the paper “had nothing to do with political considerations, 'mob' pressure, threats to the authors, or distaste for the political views of people citing the work approvingly.”

    I think they did actually say that one reason was because they did not care for the way the report had been characterised in some reports. I confess to not being entirely clear about the primary reason for their decision - a product of my limited academic background. They seemed to say that they thought their data was a bit more limited than they had first thought but that, on the whole, they stood by their findings. I was left a bit unsure about how to interpret what they said.

  • To be very honest and because I am quite shallow I did not read all of the available evidence...which one of these academics called Bayo a water buffalo?

  • edited July 2020

    @HCblue said:

    @Username said:

    @Chris said:
    To be clear, the authors of that paper specifically said their decision to withdraw the paper “had nothing to do with political considerations, 'mob' pressure, threats to the authors, or distaste for the political views of people citing the work approvingly.”

    Exactly.

    The last 10 or so posts have also shown how picking out a couple of extremely rare and specific examples can easily be used to distract and derail. Hcblue doesn't actually care about one random scientist from the USA, it doesn't matter one jot to him, and quite frankly it would be strange if he did, but here we are talking about it rather than talking about changing things that affect millions daily. Imagine if every example of racism was examined in that detail to analyse if a couple of individuals were unfairly treated/ didn't have their paper published/ didn't get a position. There'd be an uncountable number of examples, constantly....

    Yes no one wants things to swing too far "the other way", but until we're at a point which is nearer racial equality /a non racist society, picking out the odd example of when someone is unfairly treated to slow change to stop something that affects millions doesn't compute with me...

    Especially when annecdotaly almost every example I've seen in real life that's claimed to have been hard done by, has just been a snide racist anyway not happy at being caught out. None of my close friends have ever been accused falsely of racism, but shockingly some of the racists on my FB contacts have been "falsely accused" more than once, shock that....

    All opinions though, and this is far more civilised than FB/twitter

    I care as much about a random US scientist as I do about you and regret your ad hominem criticism and entirely incorrect assumption about my motivation. You should, too, if you wish to arrive at a sustainable solution to the problem you describe rather than one that encourages even greater division by reducing everyone and everything into racial categories and judging them accordingly.

    Not sure saying you don't care about someone you've never met is an ad hominem attack but hey ho

  • I find it strange that FTFC don’t seem to have released any response to Bayo’s statement (unless I’ve missed it, but I’ve googled and checked the club’s website and social media channels).

    Doesn’t mean that they’re not taking it seriously internally, but I’d be disappointed if an allegation like that was made against a WWFC representative and our club just appeared to make no response.

  • @jessvl1 said:
    I find it strange that FTFC don’t seem to have released any response to Bayo’s statement (unless I’ve missed it, but I’ve googled and checked the club’s website and social media channels).

    Doesn’t mean that they’re not taking it seriously internally, but I’d be disappointed if an allegation like that was made against a WWFC representative and our club just appeared to make no response.

    Yes. The very least they can do is say they're investigating straight away.
    Even if it's the loosest of hanger on, some invited mate of a board member etc, it still needs a response!

  • Even if there was no racist intent, representatives of a visiting club would normally expect to abide by usual rules of giving and receiving hospitality.
    (I.e. not abusing the hosts' players.) Having learnt of the offence caused, you would think some kind of statement would be forthcoming.

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  • edited September 2020

    "Governance system accused of being systematically racist proves it yet again"

    Football has a really serious problem, no wonder the players still want to take a knee in protest

  • I think we may have a very fired up Bayo when he returns to fitness at the end of next month. As a General, I'm sure he'll use this to create an even stronger mental attitude and energy in the squad.

  • unurprisingly cross statement from Wanderers here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54279534

    Good on 'em.

  • Abused one of our players (possibly arguably not definitely racist however unlikely) , had two players sent off, got smashed despite "no chance we could be better prepared", had a flair thrown on the pitch despite the game being played behind closed doors, manager on bail for assault, great job all round Fleetwood.

  • It's really disappointing. There appears to be no denying that the term was used just that the FA don't think it was discriminatory as they were used "to describe the players actions".
    Before you know it they will be saying it's okay to use the term "monkey" to describe a black players actions too.
    They had a chance to take a stand and failed to take it ...

  • The FA statement highlights one of the exact problems with the racism situation, it's essentially saying "they didn't mean it to be racist so it's ok". It's madness

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  • I must say that I’m surprised and disappointed by this decision. Football commentators have recently had to undergo courses in unconscious racial bias which pointed out that seemingly harmless words like ‘strong’ and ‘pacey’ could be offensive to black players. Surely what was said to Bayo was far worse?

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  • I was genuinely about to write that Bayo will be fired up for Fleetwood, when I realized they are still languishing in a division below us!

  • @Username said:
    The FA statement highlights one of the exact problems with the racism situation, it's essentially saying "they didn't mean it to be racist so it's ok". It's madness

    People get hung up on the definitions a bit too much, wether the guy set out to be racist isn't necessarily the issue.

    it's clearly an abusive comment, without knowing the connotation there's the possibility of saying people should suck it up or it's not a big deal , knowing how it's been taken there's the opportunity to ask the guy to apologize and to look at language going forward, to just say it doesn't reach the level of a charge so in effect the guy is innocent, Bayo is in the wrong is a lazy result.

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  • edited September 2020

    @StrongestTeam said:

    @Username said:
    The FA statement highlights one of the exact problems with the racism situation, it's essentially saying "they didn't mean it to be racist so it's ok". It's madness

    People get hung up on the definitions a bit too much, wether the guy set out to be racist isn't necessarily the issue.

    it's clearly an abusive comment, without knowing the connotation there's the possibility of saying people should suck it up or it's not a big deal , knowing how it's been taken there's the opportunity to ask the guy to apologize and to look at language going forward, to just say it doesn't reach the level of a charge so in effect the guy is innocent, Bayo is in the wrong is a lazy result.

    Exactly, it doesn't matter if the person saying it thinks it's offensive/ racist

    Not saying the guy that said it is necessarily a racist... But racists generally don't think what they're saying is racist, so by the FAs logic that's all fine, so long as in their own heads its ok. They should have made an example of the incident and used it as a learning point, instead they've just tried to sweep it under the carpet.

    When football returns there could be some hugely contentious decisions to be made by the FA/ clubs, Ive seen a lot of people on social media saying they'll boo players taking a knee etc, I sincerely hope that'll mean their ejection and banning, even if it loses clubs money.

  • "We encourage every football stakeholder to read our report, acknowledge the impact of the language they use – consciously or unconsciously – to describe Black players and take steps to address their bias."

    and then go on to offer support to Bayo, spot on.

  • Meanwhile more than a few folk on twitter using Bayo's joke tweet with Curtis Thompson a while before the incident to justify the insult being used.

    And one charmer of a Wigan 'fan' wishing a career-ending injury on Bayo.

    Sometimes I despair.

  • @MindlessDrugHoover said:
    Meanwhile more than a few folk on twitter using Bayo's joke tweet with Curtis Thompson a while before the incident to justify the insult being used.

    And one charmer of a Wigan 'fan' wishing a career-ending injury on Bayo.

    Sometimes I despair.

    Social media is particularly depressing right now, the racists are gaining in confidence

  • Populism is about shouting, hatred of 'the other', scorn and lack of empathy. The 'silent majority' finally given a voice.
    And they believe they are actually talking for all of us...

  • This is so depressing.

    Hopefully the club, staff and players are supporting Bayo during this time (I am sure that they are)

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  • This just further emphasises that football has a long way to go - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54272052

  • The actions of this Fleetwood representitive and the result of the enquiry make me sad. It was racism pure and simple and any justification for it only makes it more racist.

    The EFL cannot justify using the players BLM protests as part of their PR anymore. They have run a cart right through it.

  • Seems like some shoddy work by the FA here.

    Took ages to "investigate", actually confirmed that the wording had been used by all sides, but then totally let the guy off.

    The bit about saying it was a description of his activity was bizarre.
    He wasn't lazing around in some quiet stream somewhere chewing some cud, so how was that any alibi?!

  • This, lifted directly from the citizens advice front page:-

    What are racist or religious hate incidents?
    Something is a racist or religious hate incident if the victim or anyone else thinks it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on race or religion.

    This means that if you believe something is a hate incident, it should be recorded as such by the person you are reporting it to.

    The FA position is, quite frankly, unjustifiable.

  • And this from the CPS

    "Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race"

    Seems to me that, given the guy admits making the remark, if Bayo wanted to report it to the police there might be a case to answer.

  • edited September 2020

    @Twizz said:
    This, lifted directly from the citizens advice front page:-

    What are racist or religious hate incidents?
    Something is a racist or religious hate incident if the victim or anyone else thinks it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on race or religion.

    This means that if you believe something is a hate incident, it should be recorded as such by the person you are reporting it to.

    The FA position is, quite frankly, unjustifiable.

    Something can't be a hate crime just because you want it to be recorded as such though.
    There have to be rules about things, judged by a third party.

    In Bayo's case it was certainly a sinister situation that had a pitiful response though.

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