@EwanHoosaami I think I understand it. I think he’s saying there’s no such thing as a correct decision, except for all those times he’s talked about getting the correct decision, or when VAR says so. Also, we have both never been at war with Eurasia and we have always been at war with Eurasia.
@EwanHoosaami , I normally see you as one
Of the more sensible posters so in truth I am struggling to understand what you don’t get here.
To illustrate the point, not sure if you saw the Palace - Liverpool highlights. With the score 0-0 palace fired a corner across, a forward pushed a defender causing him to miss it and in the subsequent scramble a goal was scored. The pitch ref missed the push.
The sole job of VAR in that situation was to show the referee what happened. The referee can now see what actually happened and JUDGE whether in his opinion the push was sufficient to constitute a foul. There is no factual yes or no to that, it’s simply a human referees judgement based on the facts of seeing what happened.
In this case his judgement was that it was a foul and therefore disallowed the goal. As it happens I agree with his judgement. But others may have disagreed with that judgement. We don’t know what the head of referees judgement of that incident was. He may feel that the referee was correct to have disallowed the goal , in which case he would add it to the eighty or so correct overturning of original decisions in his opinion. Or he might disagree in which case he would add it to the four incorrect overturning of original decisions in his opinion.
Note always opinion. While goal line technology is (fairly) definitive and to a large extent offside too, fouls and handballs are more subjective and always will be.VAR simply provides the referee with better information on which to form his judgement. has this helped to make the point a little clearer?
While in many cases you are right that VAR will provide ‘better information’ @DevC i would also argue that in many cases it doesn’t. Seeing the same incident from various different angles and at different speeds can occasionally give a false information.
A decision by a skilled referee taken live in the full flow of a game is in some instances a far better judgement of an incident than watching It again and again.
Thinking about the penalty kick stuff that is mentioned in another thread, another potential advantage of VAR (working effectively) is that it would change player behaviour - if they knew cheating was going to get caught by VAR they would be less likely to do it in the first place.
@Chris agree with you that VAR at penalty kicks might change player behaviour. In this case it is a matter of fact - there’s either encroachment or keeper off of line or there isn’t. Same as ball crossed goal line is a matter of fact. VAR for me on marginal offside or other matters that are subjective just hasn’t worked and detracts from the game.
Although it bloody seemed to take forever to establish it!
Didn't help that the ifollow camera angle didn't show the lino!! Would love to know if he actually flagged! Or was like that one in the checkatrade who didn't bother when Parker put it away, but then decided it was offside later!
Although the referee seemed slow to go over to consult the lino, in fairness I think he was just standing and observing their players.
Potentially if one of them had entered the crowd he would have been carded, so guess he had to stand and watch what happened.
Also the lino stood his ground in the corner, not like he ran back to the half way line either.
Yes it appeared to us that the Wycombe players appeals were falling on deaf ears but as soon as their players turned back toward the half way line the referee ran over to check with the linesman if there was an offside an immediately ruled out the goal.
Much better than VAR and if you'd been at the ground you could have appreciated what happened.
Anyone just seen the pukki goal for Norwich? Excitement of seeing an excellent cross field pass, brilliant first touch and excellent goal but his elbow was slightly in front of last defender in the build up. Thanks VAR. Glad we dont have it.
Comments
@EwanHoosaami I think I understand it. I think he’s saying there’s no such thing as a correct decision, except for all those times he’s talked about getting the correct decision, or when VAR says so. Also, we have both never been at war with Eurasia and we have always been at war with Eurasia.
@EwanHoosaami , I normally see you as one
Of the more sensible posters so in truth I am struggling to understand what you don’t get here.
To illustrate the point, not sure if you saw the Palace - Liverpool highlights. With the score 0-0 palace fired a corner across, a forward pushed a defender causing him to miss it and in the subsequent scramble a goal was scored. The pitch ref missed the push.
The sole job of VAR in that situation was to show the referee what happened. The referee can now see what actually happened and JUDGE whether in his opinion the push was sufficient to constitute a foul. There is no factual yes or no to that, it’s simply a human referees judgement based on the facts of seeing what happened.
In this case his judgement was that it was a foul and therefore disallowed the goal. As it happens I agree with his judgement. But others may have disagreed with that judgement. We don’t know what the head of referees judgement of that incident was. He may feel that the referee was correct to have disallowed the goal , in which case he would add it to the eighty or so correct overturning of original decisions in his opinion. Or he might disagree in which case he would add it to the four incorrect overturning of original decisions in his opinion.
Note always opinion. While goal line technology is (fairly) definitive and to a large extent offside too, fouls and handballs are more subjective and always will be.VAR simply provides the referee with better information on which to form his judgement. has this helped to make the point a little clearer?
While in many cases you are right that VAR will provide ‘better information’ @DevC i would also argue that in many cases it doesn’t. Seeing the same incident from various different angles and at different speeds can occasionally give a false information.
A decision by a skilled referee taken live in the full flow of a game is in some instances a far better judgement of an incident than watching It again and again.
Thinking about the penalty kick stuff that is mentioned in another thread, another potential advantage of VAR (working effectively) is that it would change player behaviour - if they knew cheating was going to get caught by VAR they would be less likely to do it in the first place.
@Chris agree with you that VAR at penalty kicks might change player behaviour. In this case it is a matter of fact - there’s either encroachment or keeper off of line or there isn’t. Same as ball crossed goal line is a matter of fact. VAR for me on marginal offside or other matters that are subjective just hasn’t worked and detracts from the game.
Who needs VAR, the lino got it spot on. We could all clearly see.
Amen.
Although it bloody seemed to take forever to establish it!
Didn't help that the ifollow camera angle didn't show the lino!! Would love to know if he actually flagged! Or was like that one in the checkatrade who didn't bother when Parker put it away, but then decided it was offside later!
Not sure anyone in the stadium could have known what on earth was going on....
Although the referee seemed slow to go over to consult the lino, in fairness I think he was just standing and observing their players.
Potentially if one of them had entered the crowd he would have been carded, so guess he had to stand and watch what happened.
Also the lino stood his ground in the corner, not like he ran back to the half way line either.
Yes it appeared to us that the Wycombe players appeals were falling on deaf ears but as soon as their players turned back toward the half way line the referee ran over to check with the linesman if there was an offside an immediately ruled out the goal.
Much better than VAR and if you'd been at the ground you could have appreciated what happened.
I wasn't there but on iFollow, it looked like the officials were 'listening' to the Wycombe appeals.
Anyone just seen the pukki goal for Norwich? Excitement of seeing an excellent cross field pass, brilliant first touch and excellent goal but his elbow was slightly in front of last defender in the build up. Thanks VAR. Glad we dont have it.
@Wendoverman - yes, an absolute joke. I turned the game off immediately when the decision came in. Seems a waste of time when a goal is not a goal.
Have seen three goals come through on an app today and then the correction!
If nothing else they have to stop sending goal updates until confirmed.
Unless they want us to experience the "var experience" even when not watching
Great photo from Carrow Road on twitter, banner up:
VAR, Clearly & Obviously not working, Decision: Get it in the bin.
The Palace one doesn't exactly look clear and obvious either.
Potd