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Match day thread: Fleetwood

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  • In the games I've seen so far, I think his ratio of mistakes per completion of tasks has significantly improved this season from last season.

    I've found myself on more than one occasion (this season) being pleasantly surprised that he's completed a catch/punch for a cross which was difficult, made a one on one save which he had no right to do so, come out to clear a ball that last year he would have stayed in the box for.

    This made me reflect on whether my preconceptions of him potentially being out of his depth at this level were fair. I decided to be a bit more positive about what he does well and accept that he is going to make some mistakes but hopefully not too often.

    What I hope for is that those mistakes are few and far between, that he turns into the keeper we've seen in the first 4 league and cup games of the season and he fulfils the potential that Gareth and Dobbo clearly feel he has.

    I'm not sure it is fair to tarnish him with the "I told you so" brush 5 games and ONE mistake into the season. My fingers are crossed that come Xmas we are talking about how amazing he has been rather than the mistakes he's made.

  • @Wendoverman @OxfordBlue ...I might be able to help here!

    @eric_plant ...I'm not sure I'm comfortable agreeing with you so often!

    @bluntphil ...cheers Phil. I think my curiosity is more on an individual, human basis. I am sure they displayed a united front, following the manager's philosophy publicly but privately at least one of them must have felt frustrated and let down by their team-mate. It's always harder for goalkeepers, mistakes usually result in goals and I remind when I played (a long time ago), getting my head around let my team-mates down was the bigger than anything else. Will see you at a game soon I'm sure. I'll dig out the Italia '90 shirt again!

  • @glasshalfempty said:
    Ryan Allsop, making his 187th professional appearance, is not to blame but Giles Phillips, making only his 2nd ever league start, and Darius Charles, making his first start in 9 months after recovering from a career-ending injury, are the real culprits. Is that your argument? Whoa, and I thought I was too demanding.

    I wasn't actually disagreeing too much with your goalkeeper analysis.

    But if you can state "Apparently professional goalkeepers are now not expected to catch a football if it is raining", then you surely have to apply that to our professional full back and centre backs in letting such a dangerous cross come in, and allowing a free head on the P spot respectively, to others.

    Making allowances to them for lack of appearances, recent or otherwise, yet no allowance to our keeper for the conditions.

  • @bluntphil said:
    @glasshalfempty I will 100% defend your right to post whatever you wish on here/anywhere else on the internet, opinions and debate are great facets of football that keep us all hooked.

    I agree that it was an Allsop error that made a telling contribution to the late leveller and I reckon Ryan would agree with this too.

    In answer to your question about his team mates thoughts on the matter - from what I see with this current group of players, I believe that they will take collecive responsibility and move on or 'go again' to use the preferred parlance of the pro footballer. The bond and camaraderie of the playing/coaching staff is the best I've seen since I started reporting on the club.

    This current crop fail and achieve together and do so with a positive mind set that starts with the attitude of Gaz and filters down through his 'generals' of Bayo, Blooms, Charles, Jacobson etc. I dread to think where the club would be now without this positive agenda set by Gaz.

    I remember being at Fleetwood back in 2014 and seeing Dean Morgan turning around to his own bench and telling them to 'f*** off' after receiving some instruction. WW insipidly lost that day against ten men and not long after went on to survive at Torquay. Dean Morgan didn't make the trip that day and was last seen on trial at Beaconsfield, despite his obvious talents.

    The fans can worry, pick holes and find fault and also celebrate the success, it's their prerogative, but these players are currently relentlessly positive and together.

    Hope to see you soon at a game.

    I enjoyed your line about how some of our fans had included the game as part of a holiday to the north west.
    Probably a fair comment, but seemed comedy in the weather!

  • Joey the Barton said it was a good save: 'β€œMadden got his 100th EFL goal tonight and if there are any young strikers out there, they need to see his goal back because he gets in between the two defenders, then gets his first header on target – which was a good save from the keeper, but then as all good strikers do, he follows up and scores, and to score 100 league goals is no mean feat”

  • If were gonna criticise Ryan for a mistake on pitch that was at that point like a river lets criticise alex samuel for not scoring when clean through only 2/3 mins previously.

  • I remember being at Fleetwood back in 2014 and seeing Dean Morgan turning around to his own bench and telling them to 'f*** off' after receiving some instruction. WW insipidly lost that day against ten men and not long after went on to survive at Torquay. Dean Morgan didn't make the trip that day and was last seen on trial at Beaconsfield, despite his obvious talents.

    Indeed. Rebuilding and getting rid of disruptive elements was vital in the following season. What a waste as a motivated DM might have been the difference in that play-off season. I wonder if he learned any lessons...?

  • On talent alone, Dean Morgan should have had a really decent career at Championship level. I loved watching him play for Wycombe and I was sad at the way it all ended.

  • He won me Β£100 for being top scorer that year. For that alone I'd usually think of ex players extra fondly but I was very happy to see the back of him given his poor attitude.

  • Amazing how differently we all view certain incidents, still don't think Allsop is at all to blame for that goal. Main blame for me lies in an unchallenged cross and Charles missing the header after trying to get in-front of his man. Perhaps it just doesn't fit the narrative.

  • Amazing how differently we all view certain players. I always thought Dean Morgan was a prize wanker.

  • Strange what competitions people can win prizes for these days.

  • @drcongo said:
    Amazing how differently we all view certain players. I always thought Dean Morgan was a prize wanker.

    I had not seen him play previous to the Torquay season having had a few season ticketless years and though those around me at the time sang his praises I too thought he looked like he deserved the above award from quite early in in the season...and it just got worse.

  • In addition to the absurdity of predicting that Fleetwood won’t drop many points at home this season, I’m going to go even further out on a limb by predicting that Manchester City and Liverpool won’t drop many home points either. Quite happy to back my β€˜absurd’ prediction about Fleetwood with hard cash if glasshalfempty is up for a small wager. Loser to donate a sum of money to the 500 club to help buy a new β€˜keeper, perhaps?

  • @glasshalffull , I had a look at Fleetwood's home form last year, and they only actually won 9 out of 23, leaving 14 games sounding a fairly high amount of games to drop points in.

    The top teams dropped points in 7 games as a comparison.
    We were very similar to Fleetwood (i've closed the table now, I forget who was slightly ahead, think we won 10)

    So do you think they've improved significantly?

  • @th100 said:
    That was Bayo's 45th goal for us. How long until the 50th?

    I think just 5 more (insert smiley face)

  • My mistake, Malone. I should really have said that Fleetwood won’t lose many home games. They lost only 5 of their 23 (H) matches last season and only 8 of the other 23 teams in League 1 won more home points. They included the promoted trio Luton, Charlton and Barnsley plus Sunderland and Pompey, the two clubs with the biggest home support.
    That makes me fairly confident that the majority of teams would be delighted to come away from Fleetwood with a point.

  • I agree that it was an Allsop error that made a telling contribution to the late leveller and I reckon Ryan would agree with this too.

    @DJWYC14 Your points are extremely valid. Giles Phillips allows the cross to come in on his third ever senior appearance, in a new position, at the end of of a tough game and on a yellow card. Darius Charles doesn't win the header in the 90th minute of his first appearance in nine months whilst Allsop spills the header in tricky conditions. I dare say that if you roll back the action a few plays there will be other players who may have prevented the situation unfolding the way it did. However, as a GK, your error will always be under the microscope.

    Allsop contributed certainly. But the collective will take the responsibility, and rightly so.

  • Anyone see the two goals Fleetwood scored against Doncaster last weekend? Both of them the GK initially made a really good save but an attacker was on hand to bundle it in. (They also lost due to a 92 minute OG so it balanced it out for both sides pretty quickly)

  • One real positive for me is that we’ve already had six different goal scorers across our first five games in all competitions. I think we can expect double figures from Fred and Bayo - same from either Wheeler or Smyth (or both), and at least 5 from JJ this season. Then there’s Pattison if he can find some goal scoring form. I really do fancy us to score plenty of goals this season.

  • It's a team game and a missed goal by a WWFC player is just as expensive as a Goal not saved by a goalkeeper or defender. Why do we hound a Goalkeeper for an error and ignore a missed sitter from an outfield player?

  • Because Bayo is bigger and scarier than Allsop?

  • @Wendoverman said:
    Joey the Barton said it was a good save: 'β€œMadden got his 100th EFL goal tonight and if there are any young strikers out there, they need to see his goal back because he gets in between the two defenders, then gets his first header on target – which was a good save from the keeper, but then as all good strikers do, he follows up and scores, and to score 100 league goals is no mean feat”

    Not sure how it is a good save. Was straight at allsop.Would have had to move either way for the header not to hit him.

  • I still actually think Allsop is in credit this season. A couple against MK I would have had no complaints if they’d have scored. And his goal line dance/antics for the first penalty against MK probably contributed to the guy blazing it over

  • @Aylesburyblue said:

    @Wendoverman said:
    Joey the Barton said it was a good save: 'β€œMadden got his 100th EFL goal tonight and if there are any young strikers out there, they need to see his goal back because he gets in between the two defenders, then gets his first header on target – which was a good save from the keeper, but then as all good strikers do, he follows up and scores, and to score 100 league goals is no mean feat”

    Not sure how it is a good save. Was straight at allsop.Would have had to move either way for the header not to hit him.

    It wasn't a good header, or a good save.
    But it was a sharp reaction to pile it in, as Allsop did react fairly quickly after.

  • @Malone said:

    @Aylesburyblue said:

    @Wendoverman said:
    Joey the Barton said it was a good save: 'β€œMadden got his 100th EFL goal tonight and if there are any young strikers out there, they need to see his goal back because he gets in between the two defenders, then gets his first header on target – which was a good save from the keeper, but then as all good strikers do, he follows up and scores, and to score 100 league goals is no mean feat”

    Not sure how it is a good save. Was straight at allsop.Would have had to move either way for the header not to hit him.

    It wasn't a good header, or a good save.
    But it was a sharp reaction to pile it in, as Allsop did react fairly quickly after.

    Agree..striker reacted very quickly to bundle home.

  • Not really sure why we need to stress the context in such a drawn out fashion when we are analysing a specific goal/ incident.

    Could just say that Phillips allows the cross to come in, Charles doesn't win the header and Allsop spills the header in tricky conditions.

  • Or we could stop analysing the minutiae of one moment in one game and take a view on players over a much longer body of work.

    I think if you do that with Allsopp you conclude that we could do better. I'm certainly not saying that because he may or may not have made an error on Tuesday night.

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