@JohnnyAllAlone said: @floyd Ok so there is a cost for their time if we do not take up the offer.....max 17.5 per cent of what we borrow.
Mark Palmer is not a Football Consultant but a Football Industry Consultant. The former implies that he is involved in team affairs etc. They were all going to great lengths to explain that was not the case and that Gareth was in charge of that side.
What is his role going to be at Wycombe, did he say? Is it a Chief Exec style position?
@floyd - he did correct Matt Cecil by adding the word "industry" between football and consultant. He talked a good game about waiting for Gareth to ask for his help and highlighting that all final decisions were with Gareth... Only time will tell on that!
OK, but try telling that to the full time staff who rely on the club for their livelihood. It's not a toy or a hobby for a few fans, it's a significant local business and as such should look to grow in a sustainable manner.
I guess not really of any importance in the overall scheme of things, but (if I heard correctly) Mark Palmer, mention that there was an ex-player there last night who injured him and ended his playing career. Wonder who that might have been..
What the gasroom tells us is we want to be fan owned but not run by the people presently running it or we want an investor but not any of the ones who have come forward so far. Or we want to be fan owned but get rich people to pony up out of the goodness of their hearts . We want to stay in league football but are willing to go back to park football if none of the above works? I think we can safely say this is a complicated issue with no one simple solution that will please all.
I wasn’t just referring to posters on the Gasroom, there are other supporters out there who are against outside investment. I think you’ll agree that this forum doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of the majority of fans. More than one poster has stated that they believe the threshold of 75% needed to approve majority investment is unlikely to succeed so there’s clearly a substantial number of people against the idea.
But wasn’t it you @eric_plant who, at some unearthly early hour earlier this morning, said that you always had difficulty getting your head round this stuff?
@glasshalffull said:
I wasn’t just referring to posters on the Gasroom, there are other supporters out there who are against outside investment. I think you’ll agree that this forum doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of the majority of fans. More than one poster has stated that they believe the threshold of 75% needed to approve majority investment is unlikely to succeed so there’s clearly a substantial number of people against the idea.
You're conflating 2 separate things. I think the 75% threshold is a very tough hurdle to get over. I don't think this proves that lots of fans don't think we're in need of investment.
@micra said:
But wasn’t it you @eric_plant who, at some unearthly early hour earlier this morning, said that you always had difficulty getting your head round this stuff?
@glasshalffull said:
I meant to add that we need investment to stand still, never mind progress.
Maybe we've overreached ourselves then. Maybe we don't belong in League One at the moment. The long term survival of the club is more important than your desire for progression up the leagues.
And you haven't ever produced any evidence that the club is 'broke'. We've had significant income from player sales over the last 5 years. We should not be in a perilous financial position now.
Ok fellow Wycombe Wanderers fans, having tried to get my head around all the interpretations and visions of the future with or without investment I am in turmoil.
1. I cannot get my head around how any financially knowledgeable person would invest in a 3rd tier football team that is un sustainable and unlikely to return a profit.
2. If we don't return a 70% positive vote for the takeover we will have an even larger un serviceable debt than we currently have.
3. If we return a 70% positive vote and the takeover is completed, how long will the investment last in its endevour to return a profit?
4. The takeover is completed. WW returns a profit and is sold to???
Apologies for the ramble but I am really struggling with this issue.
Cambridge Blue, with great respect there is sufficient evidence of our financial state out there that I can’t believe you still think everything is ok.
@micra said:
The only caveat there @glasshalffull is that those people who doubt whether 75% is achievable may Not themselves be against outside investment.
I absolutely agree but to answer the point made by you and Eric Plant, it surely follows that if the 75% is thought to be unattainable, it means that more than a quarter of those with a vote are presumed to be against the idea.
I doubt whether anyone is looking for “progression up the leagues” @Cambridge_Blue. Investors (including the Couhigs + 1) are looking towards the next level for obvious reasons but I’ll wager that very few of us fans look beyond League 1 survival and sustainability.
@micra said:
The only caveat there @glasshalffull is that those people who doubt whether 75% is achievable may Not themselves be against outside investment.
I absolutely agree but to answer the point made by you and Eric Plant, it surely follows that if the 75% is thought to be unattainable, it means that more than a quarter of those with a vote are presumed to be against the idea.
Some just won't vote, either through apathy or because they didn't realise it was going on. Others will vote against, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they are against the idea per se, rather that they are not in favour of this particular proposal.
It's far too simplistic to say if you don't vote in favour of this then you don't realise the club is in a perilous financial position.
On the strength of the enthusiastic reaction by the vast majority of the very large audience last night (very different to the response to Bill and Jim’s “presentation” which, to be fair, was essentially a PR exercise) I’d be surprised @glasshalffull if 25% of Legacy Members are likely to vote no or abstain. But it all depends on how well Couhigs and co do over the next 6-9 months.
I know you like to disagree with everything I post, but it’s all good debate as long as it doesn’t become personal.
Incidentally, I did not say that if you don’t vote in favour you don’t realise the club is in a perilous position and I do agree with your first paragraph.
@glasshalffull said:
We have already cut the playing budget by almost a third giving us easily the lowest budget in League One and lower than most in League Two. Any further substantial cuts would put us below the level of many National League clubs. The likely consequences of such action are obvious.
Andy Holt said the playing budget for Accy last season was £1.1m, so the Premier League/EFL payments we received more than covered that. I should have gone to the special Trust finance meeting to go over the accounts in detail, but I'm just trying to understand our other costs and why we have to keep borrowing large sums from Americans.
We have other income - ticket sales, Cup prize money, box lettings, food & drink, sponsorship, conference/room lettings, iFollow (£30k last season Rob said). What are our other major costs which we cannot cover?
Plenty of food for thought there @Steve_Peart. Not least for Peter Couhig perhaps. Hope he really gets his teeth into all that. And keeps the Rennies handy.
On the 75% threshold thing, surely given that to be eligible to vote you have to be a paid-up member of the Trust and a paid up STH, the people voting will be the most active section of the fanbase, and therefore more than likely to use their vote?
The whole "Yeovil's mistake was to get promoted before they were ready" thing was a bit odd I thought. What were they supposed to have done? Stopped trying to win games as they got closer to the top of the table?
I cannot believe that legacy members would not vote or would be apathetic, the fact that they are legacy members sort of negates that. It may not make the 75% but I think the vote might be closer to the threshold than us social media influencers on the Gasroom might expect.
Hopefully the Board have approached the EFL to get an initial opinion as to whether any subsequent majority acquisition by Mr Couhig would likely get approval. The club would be in dire straits if the EFL refused to give the go ahead leaving us in massive debt we could never pay back.
Comments
What is his role going to be at Wycombe, did he say? Is it a Chief Exec style position?
@floyd - he did correct Matt Cecil by adding the word "industry" between football and consultant. He talked a good game about waiting for Gareth to ask for his help and highlighting that all final decisions were with Gareth... Only time will tell on that!
What does surprise me is people can’t get their heads around the fact that we’re broke and desperately need investment.
OK, but try telling that to the full time staff who rely on the club for their livelihood. It's not a toy or a hobby for a few fans, it's a significant local business and as such should look to grow in a sustainable manner.
Thanks @JohnnyAllAlone Did anyone ask about his role at Yeovil Town last season? Whatever it was it doesn't seem to have gone well.
I meant to add that we need investment to stand still, never mind progress.
I guess not really of any importance in the overall scheme of things, but (if I heard correctly) Mark Palmer, mention that there was an ex-player there last night who injured him and ended his playing career. Wonder who that might have been..
What the gasroom tells us is we want to be fan owned but not run by the people presently running it or we want an investor but not any of the ones who have come forward so far. Or we want to be fan owned but get rich people to pony up out of the goodness of their hearts . We want to stay in league football but are willing to go back to park football if none of the above works? I think we can safely say this is a complicated issue with no one simple solution that will please all.
Here we go again. When you say "people", how many are you talking about? I reckon it's 1 person on here. Correct me if I'm wrong
I wasn’t just referring to posters on the Gasroom, there are other supporters out there who are against outside investment. I think you’ll agree that this forum doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of the majority of fans. More than one poster has stated that they believe the threshold of 75% needed to approve majority investment is unlikely to succeed so there’s clearly a substantial number of people against the idea.
But wasn’t it you @eric_plant who, at some unearthly early hour earlier this morning, said that you always had difficulty getting your head round this stuff?
You're conflating 2 separate things. I think the 75% threshold is a very tough hurdle to get over. I don't think this proves that lots of fans don't think we're in need of investment.
I don't understand the point you are making
The only caveat there @glasshalffull is that those people who doubt whether 75% is achievable may Not themselves be against outside investment.
Maybe we've overreached ourselves then. Maybe we don't belong in League One at the moment. The long term survival of the club is more important than your desire for progression up the leagues.
And you haven't ever produced any evidence that the club is 'broke'. We've had significant income from player sales over the last 5 years. We should not be in a perilous financial position now.
Ok fellow Wycombe Wanderers fans, having tried to get my head around all the interpretations and visions of the future with or without investment I am in turmoil.
1. I cannot get my head around how any financially knowledgeable person would invest in a 3rd tier football team that is un sustainable and unlikely to return a profit.
2. If we don't return a 70% positive vote for the takeover we will have an even larger un serviceable debt than we currently have.
3. If we return a 70% positive vote and the takeover is completed, how long will the investment last in its endevour to return a profit?
4. The takeover is completed. WW returns a profit and is sold to???
Apologies for the ramble but I am really struggling with this issue.
[Edited by @drcongo just to fix formatting]
Cambridge Blue, with great respect there is sufficient evidence of our financial state out there that I can’t believe you still think everything is ok.
I absolutely agree but to answer the point made by you and Eric Plant, it surely follows that if the 75% is thought to be unattainable, it means that more than a quarter of those with a vote are presumed to be against the idea.
I doubt whether anyone is looking for “progression up the leagues” @Cambridge_Blue. Investors (including the Couhigs + 1) are looking towards the next level for obvious reasons but I’ll wager that very few of us fans look beyond League 1 survival and sustainability.
Spot on @Micra and for the record Cambridge Blue, I never mentioned progressing up the leagues, I said we needed investment just to stand still.
Some just won't vote, either through apathy or because they didn't realise it was going on. Others will vote against, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they are against the idea per se, rather that they are not in favour of this particular proposal.
It's far too simplistic to say if you don't vote in favour of this then you don't realise the club is in a perilous financial position.
On the strength of the enthusiastic reaction by the vast majority of the very large audience last night (very different to the response to Bill and Jim’s “presentation” which, to be fair, was essentially a PR exercise) I’d be surprised @glasshalffull if 25% of Legacy Members are likely to vote no or abstain. But it all depends on how well Couhigs and co do over the next 6-9 months.
I know you like to disagree with everything I post, but it’s all good debate as long as it doesn’t become personal.
Incidentally, I did not say that if you don’t vote in favour you don’t realise the club is in a perilous position and I do agree with your first paragraph.
Andy Holt said the playing budget for Accy last season was £1.1m, so the Premier League/EFL payments we received more than covered that. I should have gone to the special Trust finance meeting to go over the accounts in detail, but I'm just trying to understand our other costs and why we have to keep borrowing large sums from Americans.
We have other income - ticket sales, Cup prize money, box lettings, food & drink, sponsorship, conference/room lettings, iFollow (£30k last season Rob said). What are our other major costs which we cannot cover?
@floyd Yes, Mark Palmer did cover his time at Yeovil.
He said that they had been promoted to the Championship with no plan in place to sustain that position.
They came to him when already relegated.
Then while in his role there they did not take up the plan that he pulled together for them to build a sustainable position and so he left.
He was not involved again until Bob Couhig was interested in buying them.
Of course this is only his side and we have no info from the Yeovil Board
Plenty of food for thought there @Steve_Peart. Not least for Peter Couhig perhaps. Hope he really gets his teeth into all that. And keeps the Rennies handy.
On the 75% threshold thing, surely given that to be eligible to vote you have to be a paid-up member of the Trust and a paid up STH, the people voting will be the most active section of the fanbase, and therefore more than likely to use their vote?
The whole "Yeovil's mistake was to get promoted before they were ready" thing was a bit odd I thought. What were they supposed to have done? Stopped trying to win games as they got closer to the top of the table?
I cannot believe that legacy members would not vote or would be apathetic, the fact that they are legacy members sort of negates that. It may not make the 75% but I think the vote might be closer to the threshold than us social media influencers on the Gasroom might expect.
Hopefully the Board have approached the EFL to get an initial opinion as to whether any subsequent majority acquisition by Mr Couhig would likely get approval. The club would be in dire straits if the EFL refused to give the go ahead leaving us in massive debt we could never pay back.