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Wycombe's Released List

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  • Waiting for a 10 point post

  • I would just like to say that everyone in business knows that if you have another better way of doing things we would all like to hear it if we assume (and there is no reason not to) that we have no money and the poor old board have done all they can (and we have no reason to doubt that they have not) the only option (unless you know better ) is to give up league football turn Adams Park into industrial units and apply to join the Bostick Fishcake League South so we can at least exist as a footballing entity even if no-one knows where we are playing. If you an see another scenario I am sure we would all like to hear it fully annotated with the figures in full.
    Other than that I am going for Wycombe 1 - Bolton 3.

  • i thought it was a great pity @peterparrotface although I feared there was a strong chance of it happening from the moment the process was delayed.

    for the record I see @eric_plant as a decent socially liberal if change resistant guy who clearly cares deeply about WWFC. I have nothing particularly to "make up" with him about. He is clearly articulate enough to express his views so personally I find it a shame when he lapses down the easy but to me boring route of personal abuse rather than expressing and explaining those views. I think it demeans him. I see from the thumbs up/down scores though that that too is a minority position!

  • edited May 2019

    @DevC said:
    Constructive response as ever Eric..............

    Anyway we are where we are. We have to make the best of it and do the best we can. Even if Gareth were to leave, the squad we currently hold will I am sure give all they can in the cause. Whatever happens we can ask no more. Who knows, it maybe harder still next season but maybe we can survive against the odds again - whoever is managing the team.

    It is true though @DevC, you are just guessing. You haven't produced one shred of evidence to prove that Harman was the catalyst for the USA deal falling through have you? If you have, then please produce it and maybe we can then put the situation to bed once and for all.

  • To return to the topic just wanted to put down some thanks for the players who were released. Paris, Tyson and Harriman all had more than one spell and served the club greatly, finances and possible replacements we can leave to those involved for a bit.

    Anyone who remembers Tyson from the first time round would have been delighted to see him back arguably just as quick despite his years. Great goal at Luton. Thoroughly nice bloke.
    Harriman unfortunate really that Jason mc was available cheaply but still very good recently at left back and a fine signing for someone else.
    Paris maybe suffered a little from not always looking like he was busting a gut, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly. Far less likely to run all day than a Samuel but on his day very talented and productive. Not done at this level.
    Beano - that goal, his efforts, not the most naturally talented but brilliant attitude and very useful, deserves a go at coaching somewhere.
    Yves and Charles didn't play much but are clearly well liked and were part of a dedicated squad.
    Thanks to all and fingers crossed for some of those offered to sign up.

  • @DevC what is your view on seniors getting discounts on their season tickets?

  • @DevC said:
    i thought it was a great pity @peterparrotface although I feared there was a strong chance of it happening from the moment the process was delayed.

    for the record I see @eric_plant as a decent socially liberal if change resistant guy who clearly cares deeply about WWFC. I have nothing particularly to "make up" with him about. He is clearly articulate enough to express his views so personally I find it a shame when he lapses down the easy but to me boring route of personal abuse rather than expressing and explaining those views. I think it demeans him. I see from the thumbs up/down scores though that that too is a minority position!

    Why do you think it's a great pity? I wasn't able to have an opinion either way, and then they pulled out.

  • @DevC don’t hijack a credible thread with your inane ramblings. Really poor sport old chap.
    Thanks to all those released. All sensible decisions in the climate .... PCH is not really a team player Ian my eyes and we are going to need grafters, lovers and huggers more than ever next season. Bean is probably the one I will miss the most - seems an excellent pro and much loved teammate. And like others have said probably contributed to one of my favourite ever moments watching WWFC.
    I do find the press release a bit depressing in its tone. Sometimes it’s good to focus on some positives especially when we are trying to recruit excellent players that might have slipped through the net. Let’s big up what we’ve done rather than play the poor little old Wycombe card ....

  • edited May 2019

    @eric_plant said:
    Zero evidence that Harman had anything at all to do with the other bid pulling out.

    @DevC said:
    I disagree. Every indication was that the deal was done [...] a significant delay very often results in the deal eventually falling over. None of us will ever know for sure but my best guess is that [...]

    [...]There is no sign he has done that either. [...]

    Each must of course make his own mind up but personally I am assigning much of the blame [...]

    [...]I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest [...]

    Dev's grasp of the term evidence reaches new lows, just when we all thought there was no such thing as lower than it already was.

  • @EwanHoosaami said:

    @DevC said:

    It is true though @DevC, you are just guessing. You haven't produced one shred of evidence to prove that Harman was the catalyst for the USA deal falling through have you? If you have, then please produce it and maybe we can then put the situation to bed once and for all.

    Well Ewan you will see that I was expressing an opinion rather than claiming a fact. Thats why I used words like "Harman, having arguably scuppered the US deal with his antics, and "Every indication was that the deal was done and would have been completed in the winter/early spring (if the members voted for it). Then Harman started his antics and caused a severe delay as a result. Anyone with any experience of corporate deals will tell you that a significant delay very often results in the deal eventually falling over. None of us will ever know for sure but my best guess is that without Harman's antics, todays announcement would have looked very different." and "Maybe the Americans deal would have fallen over at the last minute even if Harman had not got involved - its possible if to my mind less likely" etc.

    But to be honest I see the evidence as pretty overwhelming.

    When the deal was first proposed, the Americans came over (time being precious to these sort of guys) and loaned us money while we went through what they understood to be the approval process as it then stood. That suggests to me that at the time they were serious and would have completed the deal if members gave approval. If you disagree with that I would be interested to know why?

    it is surely beyond question that the long delay was caused by Harman's rather bizarre antics and the boards consequent concern that they would not be able to get the 75% approval.

    It is simple fact that introduction of long delays to a deal process has a habit of causing deals to fall over.

    Our deal fell over.

    So my conclusion is that Harman's intervention played a major part in the US deal failing. Had he not did what he did I believe the deal would have been voted and if approved would likely hacve completed and as a result I believe we would be in a better place now.

    I have acknowledged above that others may interpret those facts differently and hence form a different opinion. If you have I would be interested to hear your logic.

  • @peterparrotface said:

    @DevC said:

    >

    Why do you think it's a great pity? I wasn't able to have an opinion either way, and then they pulled out.

    Well Peter I think its a great pity because the fact the deal fell through was highly likely to result in exactly what was confirmed today. And given that all the trust board directors had recommended it (and the vast majority believed it was a better deal than Harman's) lead me to a default position that it was likely to be a good deal for the club. Now it is possible that when the detail emerged I might have changed that view. Sadly we were never to find out.

    Given where we are now, are you not in retrospect disappointed that the deal fell over when it did?

  • Couldn't you just DM this sort of rubbish to yourself?

  • Stick your bullshit on another fantasy thread Dev

  • @DevC how many of the "cast-off characters" have you met and/or discussed the topic of conversation with directly?

  • @DevC said:

    @peterparrotface said:

    @DevC said:

    >

    Why do you think it's a great pity? I wasn't able to have an opinion either way, and then they pulled out.

    Well Peter I think its a great pity because the fact the deal fell through was highly likely to result in exactly what was confirmed today. And given that all the trust board directors had recommended it (and the vast majority believed it was a better deal than Harman's) lead me to a default position that it was likely to be a good deal for the club. Now it is possible that when the detail emerged I might have changed that view. Sadly we were never to find out.

    Given where we are now, are you not in retrospect disappointed that the deal fell over when it did?

    I was disappointed then and remain disappointed now that we never got to find out what the bid was or any detail as to what it entailed.

    1. Very best of luck to all those leaving and particularly to Harriman and Tyson; it's particularly sad to see them go.

    2. @kiscokid Unusually, I disagree. I feel that the "little Wycombe" thing is well-judged. We are, as we have been from the moment that our previous Club Owner pulled the plug, in an existential crisis. It feels to me like good judgement to convey that message clearly to the fans - (a) because it's true and (b) because we could do with revitalising the "up against it, but in it together" ethos that Ainsworth so astutely built in his early days as manager.

    3. Where's the bucket? I really am bemused as to why we are not doing the 500 club or whatever we brand it this time.

  • To my knowledge none what so ever, Ewan. I have just formed an opinion based on the facts available.

    If you have formed a contrary opinion I would be grateful if you could explain why.

    Working back
    Presumably there is no question that the fell over
    Presumably there is no question that deals have a tendency to fall over when a long delay is introduced
    Presumably there is no question that the long delay was a result of Harman’s intervention
    Which I think if I have understood you correctly means you don’t believe the Americans would have completed if the deal had followed its original timetable. If I have understood you correctly, could you explain how you have formed that judgement.

  • @our_frank I sort of agree, but now its time to puff our chest out and get stuck in. Not the time for Defeatism and Jiminy Crickets. Too many Florence Nightingales not enough Robin Hoods etc

    And yes get the bucket out. If the Trust are honest, communicate well and ask for help they will get it in droves.

  • some of these posts are sending me to sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • If anything the board caused the "Harman related" delay by repeatedly telling him to shut up and go away until he went public.

  • @DevC you know I generally approve of your input but your accusatory .tone I do find is sometimes misjudged.

    You have taken what we know (the evidence/facts) and applied it to your base of knowledge, experience and prejudices to reach your opinion.

    @EwanHoosaami has (presumably) applied it to his (or her - sorry I’ve not been paying attention) own base and reached his/her own opinion which happens to differ from yours.

    That is his (or her) right and he/she has no obligation to enter a game of ‘my opinion is better than yours’

    For what it’s worth I have ran it through my own cigs and wheels and whilst I accept your argument as plausible I am also happy to embrace other plausibilities in which the Harman factor had no ultimate effect on the American bid (in this version the 75% was always the final hurdle and as they learnt more about the club, culture and fans one that became increasingly impassable).

    On balance I have formed an opinion where I do put some weight to the proposed Harman bid as being unhelpful but that’s not my point

  • @peterparrotface I'm not saying we shouldn't be proud or have belief - we absolutely should. I don't see the press release as defeatist. It's just putting that pride in context.

  • Why the blooming heck is there so much Harman/American takeover chat on this thread?

    We're talking about the released list, and everytime I think there's another charming HARRIMAN story, it's someone waffling about HARMAN.

  • @bookertease I am genuinely disappointed by your post. I also do my best to remain courteous, in the face of a good deal of incoming abuse let it be said. Not least because I always think that abuse says much more about the abuser than the abusee.

    So I genuinely haven’t tried to adopt an accusatory tone to Ewan. Looking back in truth I don’t think I have but I guess you are better placed to judge than I.

    Of course Ewan is entitled to form a different opinion to mine from the same facts (I am pretty sure I have acknowledged that on several occasions above) and of course he is under no obligation to explain why. I am though surely entitled to sdk him too especially when he has fairly aggressively challenged my opinion on the matter.

    To be honest I am struggling to understand how anybody could conclude that Harmsn’s intervention didn’t ultimately result in the deal collapsing (or at least as you say the members deciding on it) but I am open to someone explaining their contrary view to me and who knows maybe convincing me they are right.

    While it is academic now as we are where we are, my view is that Harman’s actions are a significant part of the reason why we had to release players we wanted to keep today and why it appears we will start next season in a pretty bad state.

  • DevC

    To be honest I am struggling to understand how anybody could conclude that Harmsn’s intervention didn’t ultimately result in the deal collapsing (or at least as you say the members deciding on it) but I am open to someone explaining their contrary view to me and who knows maybe convincing me they are right.

    Have you ever conceded that someone has proved you wrong? Serious question Dev.

  • The US deal collapsed due to their work pressures not easing as they had planned. Unless Harman has suddenly contracted them to work for him I can't see he was to blame.

  • Is there any way the gasroom can release DevC?

    Back on topic, good luck to all of the chaps who’ve left us today. And to the ones who are staying!

  • On the main topic though I am sadder than I thought I would be over those released.
    Bean has provided me with two great memories, Harriman was a favourite player of mine and PCH has provided key goals for years. Tyson is a Wycombe legend.

    The quotes from Stroud and Ainsworth were hard to read but I wonder if a major squad shift has been overdue. We need younger players and if cheaper too we could be in for an exiting season

  • Spurs have shown the way, no signings needed clearly :)

    Hope you were all watching btw, wonder sometimes if some people actually enjoy football with all the crud round it.

  • Actually sorry @DevC I’ve looked back at your last couple of posts and they weren’t in any way accusatory (although I did originally read them that way for some reason).

    But on your second point (whilst accepting its weight and validity) there are too many unknowns and suppositions in your presumptions for me to comfortably reach a conclusion that Harman intervention did ultimately result in the deal collapsing.

    My memory is not reliable but something seems to be in there that is reminding me that there had been a long delay before Harman’s 11th hour piece of theatre. Weren’t they supposed to have presented it to us several months before? If that was the case it’s possible there were second thoughts even before AH saddled up?

    My point is I don’t know enough to be reasonably sure. On, I think the same ‘evidence’, you clearly are. I’m fine with that.

    The bit I find puzzling is your need to be proven (or convinced) right (or wrong) as I genuinely struggle to see how that could be sufficiently evidenced on what we can realistically know at this stage.

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