I agree with @th100 and @Tom about the frugality. If there is one thing worse than relegation, it's the pickle the likes of Bolton and Bury find themselves in.
If we keep GA, I still think we can stay up - our squad unity is a tangible asset, and we are absolutely tenacious. Our poor run of results masks the fact that we were competitive in almost every game this season, even after the loanees went back. We are looking threadbare, but even if Bayo, Gape and Kashket do not sign, we could field a starting 11 of:
Allsop
McCarthy
Stewart
El Abd
JJ
Thompson
Freeman
Bloomfield
CMS
Sido
Samuel
After all, who doesn't want to see Sido as a number 10? But joking apart, to my mind that is still a very strong core. Now we just need substitutes!
If we can get 13 reasonably decent players and some utility back-ups for the bench...it will be small squad, fingers crossed for injuries, all backs to the wall again but just as staying up an improvement on getting promoted...staying up AGAIN would be another success! (I have to believe this as they've already got my money....)
Absolutely appalling stuff from you as usual. Zero evidence that Harman had anything at all to do with the other bid pulling out.
I disagree. Every indication was that the deal was done and would have been completed in the winter/early spring (if the members voted for it). Then Harman started his antics and caused a severe delay as a result. Anyone with any experience of corporate deals will tell you that a significant delay very often results in the deal eventually falling over. None of us will ever know for sure but my best guess is that without Harman's antics, todays announcement would have looked very different.
Having created the mess, Harman has had every opportunity to clear it up. All due diligence was done. It shouldn't have taken too long to resurrect his offer if it was ever real. There is no sign he has done that either. Again todays announcement could have looked very different if he had.
Each must of course make his own mind up but personally I am assigning much of the blame for the mess we now find ourselves in firmly at Harman's door.
And Gareth Ainsworth is a man of huge integrity and loyalty. I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that he would walk away simply to preserve his reputation. It is frankly an insult to even suggest that he might.
your post seems to suggest that if Gareth chose to resign, you would see that as a lack of loyalty and integrity. I disagree strongly. It is entirely his choice just as it is any employees. Anyone's number one loyalty is to himself and his family. If Gareth chose to resign for another opportunity or indeed just to rest, I wouldn't hold it against him in any way and certainly wouldn't regard that as disloyal and a failure of integrity. Why on earth should he damage his future career prospects by being seen as responsible for a possible relegation that in reality was not his fault? Like you I presume, I very much hope he is still our manager in August and next May. I find your suggestion of disloyalty or lack of integrity should he choose otherwise highly disrespectful to a man who has given so much.
And the rest of it you've said before a million times. Nothing new. There never is.
That's true. Apart from noting relief that we are not in danger of relegation out of the league next season, there was nothing else in the post whatsoever
God Almighty...are we already relegated? I could be wrong but I think Gareth will stay unless he gets another - better - offer and Wycombe get compensation.
Agree with you completely on Bean @Malone. I think we've all had a laugh at elements of his play in the past (throw-ins and headers mainly) but he continued to be highly effective at what he was sent out to do: break up play and harry the opposition. His partnership with Blooms against Sunderland, with all their star names, was among the highlights of his time here. I think he still has a lot to offer the world of football, either as a player or coach.
Anyway we are where we are. We have to make the best of it and do the best we can. Even if Gareth were to leave, the squad we currently hold will I am sure give all they can in the cause. Whatever happens we can ask no more. Who knows, it maybe harder still next season but maybe we can survive against the odds again - whoever is managing the team.
Very clear statement from the club that next season is going to be a huge challenge. Fair play for being honest and a wise decision to manage expectations.
Seems to me that Gaz probably wanted to keep several of those players but cannot due to financial restrictions.
Harriman has been a key player and is a very capable full back, deemed part of our best back four for the crucial final games of the season. And given how thin the squad is he is a valuable utility player able to play both sides and winger or full back. The fact we can’t afford to offer him a new deal says a lot about the financial position. I’m certainly disappointed to see him leave and fully expect him to find himself a regular place at a lg2/lg1 side next season.
Otherwise no big surprises but a shame to see Bean and Tys go in particular.
More likely, @Tom, it will 'test the legitimacy' of such claims. I hope we can find a sustainable path. but...
The moment you bring forward anticipated income (the ultra-early ST date, for example) you know it's a slippery slope - 'cos that money is going to be used to plug an existing hole, where normally it would provide useful summer cashflow. So, what will be used for what that money is normally used for...? You can't keep bringing forward payments / borrowing to cover shortfalls before eventually, somewhere, a hole will not be able to be filled. Will we be on an Early Early Early Bird rate if we buy our L2 2020/21 STs by the end of 2019??
I believe we will be very lucky indeed to survive in L1 on the paper-thin squad / no youth team basis that we employed in L2.
So far, so Dev.
However, I now make a shape-shift from @Dev to @Shev. I believe we have the best possible manager to deal with a situation we have existed through (and thrived on) in the past. I look at the situation and feel a little defeatist - but GA is a far greater man than I will ever be, and he will already be plotting a way to get the points needed. He will already have accepted that it's not going to be pretty, he will be expecting a lot of comments about Sunday hoofball, but he will ignore all that and do what he's done for several years now - over-achieve. If anyone can maintain our status, it's Gareth. If he does so, it will be his greatest achievement - and I won't be backing against him doing it. The squad will be Wycombised to the max, and whoever is put on the field will be prepared to (not literally) die for the cause. Could any fan ask more than that?
Absolutely appalling stuff from you as usual. Zero evidence that Harman had anything at all to do with the other bid pulling out.
I disagree. Every indication was that the deal was done and would have been completed in the winter/early spring (if the members voted for it). Then Harman started his antics and caused a severe delay as a result. Anyone with any experience of corporate deals will tell you that a significant delay very often results in the deal eventually falling over. None of us will ever know for sure but my best guess is that without Harman's antics, todays announcement would have looked very different.
Having created the mess, Harman has had every opportunity to clear it up. All due diligence was done. It shouldn't have taken too long to resurrect his offer if it was ever real. There is no sign he has done that either. Again todays announcement could have looked very different if he had.
Each must of course make his own mind up but personally I am assigning much of the blame for the mess we now find ourselves in firmly at Harman's door.
You're clearly anti Harman, that is fine.
But in the same way you say Harman's deal can simply be resurrected, why would the Americans just totally pull out just because the club wanted to do the "best thing" in listening to an alternative deal.
That suggests they weren't that invested to me, if they can so quickly move onto other interests.
I'd almost wonder if we'd had a decent escape, before we got even deeper in that we already are.
"...the fans can appreciate the reality of our situation and that we must cut our cloth accordingly."
I think that's true. I also think the latter half of that was true this time last year but the former hadn't exactly been made clear to the fans, although presumably the board were aware. So my interpretation of this statement is something like:
"last year we told you it was all rosy in the garden despite the fact we were skint and we didn't have the balls to tell you that so we pushed the boat out and spent more than we could afford on our squad, but we thought that we'd all be fine as we had found some suckers Americans to bail us out. Sorry about that, but we just about got away with it and stayed up. But now you know what a mess we've got into I'm sure you won't mind us having to beg, borrow and steal a few unknowns and try and get them to overachieve to allow us to find someone with a few million pounds that they don't really, really want, so that by January we can get some real players in."
The season just gone was the first season we had a really strong squad as far as I can recall. We got to a L2 play-off final with quite a thin first team and bench. It's going to be a slog...but that's what we're used to. Don't worry I'm sure there will be some hard work, supermarket nutting, managerial blow-ups, unexpected loan heroes and Cup escapades to keep us interested!
Sometimes low expectations can be liberating! It would not surprise me if this time next year, GA has done the incredible and kept us up again, while QPR fans don't want him as their 8th manager in three months because "he almost got Wycombe relegated".
@Shev , that is very true, but imagine it the other way.
Say when the day comes our new manager is xxx who has most recently kept a team to say 21st place in the league above, or a few years doing the same in our league, would that get you hungry?
We'll never know what would have happened in alternate universes Malone.
Maybe the Americans deal would have fallen over at the last minute even if Harman had not got involved - its possible if to my mind less likely
Maybe the members would have voted it down - that's possible
Maybe the deal would have gone through and they would have proven bad owners - unlikely given their previous record but who knows
Maybe Harman will yet emerge with a real life bid and inject the funds he promised he would - he's leaving it late but its possible
Facts I see are that we had a deal, Harman forced a delay, delays in deals very often cause deals to fall over, our deal fell over, we are in a deep financial mess. For me Harman takes a very great deal of the blame. you may choose to interpret the known facts differently. We'll never know who is right. Either way we are where we are. hopefully by this time next year we have a plan to sustainably keep ourselves in Lg1 or worst case sustainably keep ourselves in lg2. looking around at the number of clubs in trouble (Bolton, Bury, Macclesfield etc) at least we are not alone.
Your assessment of Harman wrecking the American deal is probably a mute point Dev, as I think it is unlikely that it would have got the necessary 75% vote anyway.
I suspect @mooneyman is right...Harman was a distraction but even once he was gone there was still a decent chance they would not get the 75% so they probably decided to chuck it in as a bad job. I think XXX is a bit of a big time Charlie with no regard for our club traditions, I mean look at that suit, the tan and the bleached teeth.
You may well be right, Mooneyman. As many noted at the time, there was a distinct feel of brexit being re-enacted about the deal process and I dare say there would have been much comment dismissing any talk of large budget cuts being required without a deal as merely "project fear".
@eric_plant said:
"We have to make the best of it and do the best we can"
yeah, "we'll" be buying season tickets, bringing mates along to games, drinking in the bars, buying programmes and raffle tickets week in week out
You'll be doing fuck all to contribute financially as ever whilst preaching and pontificating to the rest of us.
Being a relative newcomer, I've wondered for a while if this were a contrived relationship of one-sided antipathy designed by a higher mind than mine to test the boundaries of credulity and tolerance among other Gasroomers.
@eric_plant: Having withheld from doing so on a number of occasions, I feel compelled to say that, if the apparent hatred you express in your messages to and about @DevC is indeed sincere and not some kind of bizarre pretence, then I deprecate it to the maximum and would wish you to stop such mean expressions of unkind incivility. It is spectacularly rude and, in its consistency, oppressive.
I really like @eric_plant, both in real life and as a poster - usually. But I have to agree that his knee-jerk antipathy to anything @DevC posts is taken too far at times.
We really need to get Eric and Dev to kiss and make up. Half time on the Adams Park pitch would be ideal, but as Dev hasn't visited Wycombe in living memory it would have to be at a neutral venue, perhaps Bristol Rovers!
Can be harsh at times, but i have to say im not sure if i can take a whole summer of Dev saying "its a good job were not in league 2 or we'll be non league next year'
Comments
I agree with @th100 and @Tom about the frugality. If there is one thing worse than relegation, it's the pickle the likes of Bolton and Bury find themselves in.
If we keep GA, I still think we can stay up - our squad unity is a tangible asset, and we are absolutely tenacious. Our poor run of results masks the fact that we were competitive in almost every game this season, even after the loanees went back. We are looking threadbare, but even if Bayo, Gape and Kashket do not sign, we could field a starting 11 of:
Allsop
McCarthy
Stewart
El Abd
JJ
Thompson
Freeman
Bloomfield
CMS
Sido
Samuel
After all, who doesn't want to see Sido as a number 10? But joking apart, to my mind that is still a very strong core. Now we just need substitutes!
If we can get 13 reasonably decent players and some utility back-ups for the bench...it will be small squad, fingers crossed for injuries, all backs to the wall again but just as staying up an improvement on getting promoted...staying up AGAIN would be another success! (I have to believe this as they've already got my money....)
I disagree. Every indication was that the deal was done and would have been completed in the winter/early spring (if the members voted for it). Then Harman started his antics and caused a severe delay as a result. Anyone with any experience of corporate deals will tell you that a significant delay very often results in the deal eventually falling over. None of us will ever know for sure but my best guess is that without Harman's antics, todays announcement would have looked very different.
Having created the mess, Harman has had every opportunity to clear it up. All due diligence was done. It shouldn't have taken too long to resurrect his offer if it was ever real. There is no sign he has done that either. Again todays announcement could have looked very different if he had.
Each must of course make his own mind up but personally I am assigning much of the blame for the mess we now find ourselves in firmly at Harman's door.
your post seems to suggest that if Gareth chose to resign, you would see that as a lack of loyalty and integrity. I disagree strongly. It is entirely his choice just as it is any employees. Anyone's number one loyalty is to himself and his family. If Gareth chose to resign for another opportunity or indeed just to rest, I wouldn't hold it against him in any way and certainly wouldn't regard that as disloyal and a failure of integrity. Why on earth should he damage his future career prospects by being seen as responsible for a possible relegation that in reality was not his fault? Like you I presume, I very much hope he is still our manager in August and next May. I find your suggestion of disloyalty or lack of integrity should he choose otherwise highly disrespectful to a man who has given so much.
That's true. Apart from noting relief that we are not in danger of relegation out of the league next season, there was nothing else in the post whatsoever
God Almighty...are we already relegated? I could be wrong but I think Gareth will stay unless he gets another - better - offer and Wycombe get compensation.
your "best guess" is literally the lowest benchmark possible
Agree with you completely on Bean @Malone. I think we've all had a laugh at elements of his play in the past (throw-ins and headers mainly) but he continued to be highly effective at what he was sent out to do: break up play and harry the opposition. His partnership with Blooms against Sunderland, with all their star names, was among the highlights of his time here. I think he still has a lot to offer the world of football, either as a player or coach.
Constructive response as ever Eric..............
Anyway we are where we are. We have to make the best of it and do the best we can. Even if Gareth were to leave, the squad we currently hold will I am sure give all they can in the cause. Whatever happens we can ask no more. Who knows, it maybe harder still next season but maybe we can survive against the odds again - whoever is managing the team.
"We have to make the best of it and do the best we can"
yeah, "we'll" be buying season tickets, bringing mates along to games, drinking in the bars, buying programmes and raffle tickets week in week out
You'll be doing fuck all to contribute financially as ever whilst preaching and pontificating to the rest of us.
Very clear statement from the club that next season is going to be a huge challenge. Fair play for being honest and a wise decision to manage expectations.
Seems to me that Gaz probably wanted to keep several of those players but cannot due to financial restrictions.
Harriman has been a key player and is a very capable full back, deemed part of our best back four for the crucial final games of the season. And given how thin the squad is he is a valuable utility player able to play both sides and winger or full back. The fact we can’t afford to offer him a new deal says a lot about the financial position. I’m certainly disappointed to see him leave and fully expect him to find himself a regular place at a lg2/lg1 side next season.
Otherwise no big surprises but a shame to see Bean and Tys go in particular.
@eric_plant - and don't forget buying crisps when they are in stock!
More likely, @Tom, it will 'test the legitimacy' of such claims. I hope we can find a sustainable path. but...
The moment you bring forward anticipated income (the ultra-early ST date, for example) you know it's a slippery slope - 'cos that money is going to be used to plug an existing hole, where normally it would provide useful summer cashflow. So, what will be used for what that money is normally used for...? You can't keep bringing forward payments / borrowing to cover shortfalls before eventually, somewhere, a hole will not be able to be filled. Will we be on an Early Early Early Bird rate if we buy our L2 2020/21 STs by the end of 2019??
I believe we will be very lucky indeed to survive in L1 on the paper-thin squad / no youth team basis that we employed in L2.
So far, so Dev.
However, I now make a shape-shift from @Dev to @Shev. I believe we have the best possible manager to deal with a situation we have existed through (and thrived on) in the past. I look at the situation and feel a little defeatist - but GA is a far greater man than I will ever be, and he will already be plotting a way to get the points needed. He will already have accepted that it's not going to be pretty, he will be expecting a lot of comments about Sunday hoofball, but he will ignore all that and do what he's done for several years now - over-achieve. If anyone can maintain our status, it's Gareth. If he does so, it will be his greatest achievement - and I won't be backing against him doing it. The squad will be Wycombised to the max, and whoever is put on the field will be prepared to (not literally) die for the cause. Could any fan ask more than that?
Excellent post @Tom
No surprises in that statement and it's a sensible approach to take over the summer.
@Glenactico What makes you think we couldn’t afford to offer Michael Harriman a new deal?
We'll certainly rely on Gareth's eye for a quality loanee next season> @DevC said:
You're clearly anti Harman, that is fine.
But in the same way you say Harman's deal can simply be resurrected, why would the Americans just totally pull out just because the club wanted to do the "best thing" in listening to an alternative deal.
That suggests they weren't that invested to me, if they can so quickly move onto other interests.
I'd almost wonder if we'd had a decent escape, before we got even deeper in that we already are.
"...the fans can appreciate the reality of our situation and that we must cut our cloth accordingly."
I think that's true. I also think the latter half of that was true this time last year but the former hadn't exactly been made clear to the fans, although presumably the board were aware. So my interpretation of this statement is something like:
"last year we told you it was all rosy in the garden despite the fact we were skint and we didn't have the balls to tell you that so we pushed the boat out and spent more than we could afford on our squad, but we thought that we'd all be fine as we had found some
suckersAmericans to bail us out. Sorry about that, but we just about got away with it and stayed up. But now you know what a mess we've got into I'm sure you won't mind us having to beg, borrow and steal a few unknowns and try and get them to overachieve to allow us to find someone with a few million pounds that they don't really, really want, so that by January we can get some real players in."The season just gone was the first season we had a really strong squad as far as I can recall. We got to a L2 play-off final with quite a thin first team and bench. It's going to be a slog...but that's what we're used to. Don't worry I'm sure there will be some hard work, supermarket nutting, managerial blow-ups, unexpected loan heroes and Cup escapades to keep us interested!
Sometimes low expectations can be liberating! It would not surprise me if this time next year, GA has done the incredible and kept us up again, while QPR fans don't want him as their 8th manager in three months because "he almost got Wycombe relegated".
@Shev , that is very true, but imagine it the other way.
Say when the day comes our new manager is xxx who has most recently kept a team to say 21st place in the league above, or a few years doing the same in our league, would that get you hungry?
We'll never know what would have happened in alternate universes Malone.
Maybe the Americans deal would have fallen over at the last minute even if Harman had not got involved - its possible if to my mind less likely
Maybe the members would have voted it down - that's possible
Maybe the deal would have gone through and they would have proven bad owners - unlikely given their previous record but who knows
Maybe Harman will yet emerge with a real life bid and inject the funds he promised he would - he's leaving it late but its possible
Facts I see are that we had a deal, Harman forced a delay, delays in deals very often cause deals to fall over, our deal fell over, we are in a deep financial mess. For me Harman takes a very great deal of the blame. you may choose to interpret the known facts differently. We'll never know who is right. Either way we are where we are. hopefully by this time next year we have a plan to sustainably keep ourselves in Lg1 or worst case sustainably keep ourselves in lg2. looking around at the number of clubs in trouble (Bolton, Bury, Macclesfield etc) at least we are not alone.
@Malone - it is definitely understandable on the surface, but there is always context.
And personally, I think XXX would make a great manager - he is so often overlooked!
Your assessment of Harman wrecking the American deal is probably a mute point Dev, as I think it is unlikely that it would have got the necessary 75% vote anyway.
I suspect @mooneyman is right...Harman was a distraction but even once he was gone there was still a decent chance they would not get the 75% so they probably decided to chuck it in as a bad job. I think XXX is a bit of a big time Charlie with no regard for our club traditions, I mean look at that suit, the tan and the bleached teeth.
You may well be right, Mooneyman. As many noted at the time, there was a distinct feel of brexit being re-enacted about the deal process and I dare say there would have been much comment dismissing any talk of large budget cuts being required without a deal as merely "project fear".
Being a relative newcomer, I've wondered for a while if this were a contrived relationship of one-sided antipathy designed by a higher mind than mine to test the boundaries of credulity and tolerance among other Gasroomers.
@eric_plant: Having withheld from doing so on a number of occasions, I feel compelled to say that, if the apparent hatred you express in your messages to and about @DevC is indeed sincere and not some kind of bizarre pretence, then I deprecate it to the maximum and would wish you to stop such mean expressions of unkind incivility. It is spectacularly rude and, in its consistency, oppressive.
I really like @eric_plant, both in real life and as a poster - usually. But I have to agree that his knee-jerk antipathy to anything @DevC posts is taken too far at times.
But it does allow you to play Eric & Dev Bingo. (Just waiting for ‘Watford’ to call “House.” I’m sure it won’t be long....
@bookertease but not a house on Adams Park...that would never happen!
We really need to get Eric and Dev to kiss and make up. Half time on the Adams Park pitch would be ideal, but as Dev hasn't visited Wycombe in living memory it would have to be at a neutral venue, perhaps Bristol Rovers!
Eric's assessment of Dev's initial contribution to this thread was absolutely spot on.
Can be harsh at times, but i have to say im not sure if i can take a whole summer of Dev saying "its a good job were not in league 2 or we'll be non league next year'
@DevC what is your view on the American bid pulling out?