Managers should be held to a higher standard than players @TheDancingYak
An inexperienced 20-30 year old in the heat of the moment I think can be more easily forgiven for throwing a left hook, even if it must still be condemned.
However, a manager is supposed to lead by example and have the benefit of age and experience.
Was it Arsenal's Paul Davis who got a long ban for smashing Cockerill, possibly of Southampton?
And Ben Thatcher got a huge ban for nearly taking Mendez (?) head off v Portsmouth?
While agreeing with managers needing to be held to a higher level, it's football. We've had drunk drivers, players who've hit women, sexual assualters (who've got off, arguably on technicalities but the suspicion has remained), all cruise back into the game.
Having a bit of a scuffle in the tunnel doesn't strike me as sacking material, as "serious" as it sounds to us in the real world. Especially when it comes down to needing people to witness to it. (You saw how quickly the Barnsley guy removed his tweet)
The chairman of Borehamwood is a convicted woman-beater.
I have said it before... please don't put any money into Danny Hunter's pocket by visiting his football club when we don't have a game.
@Sherrinford said:
The chairman of Borehamwood is a convicted woman-beater.
I have said it before... please don't put any money into Danny Hunter's pocket by visiting his football club when we don't have a game.
Whilst I agree with the sentiments, it seems a bit harsh on all the Borehamwood supporters, the majority of which probably had no say in the ownership of their club.
Say a convicted wife beater bought our club, would you immediately stop supporting your club and try and persuade all your fellow Wycombe supporters to do the same?
I will probably regret asking that hypothetical question if Dev gives us his epistle on the subject.
Read the comments with interest and I have to say that I think Oxford Blue has made the most pertinent point. We have to be careful as this case is being investigated by the police, but I think most clubs would expect their manager to set the right example in terms of his behaviour. We are fortunate at Wycombe that we have a manager who is beyond reproach in how he conducts himself.
Who was that absolute scumbag player who was twice jailed for sexual assault (and I believe had a string of other convictions including assault and hit and run) who kept getting contracts at (mostly) Championship-level clubs? Think his surname was King funnily enough - no relation. He must have been quite some player for clubs to even want to touch him with the proverbial bargepole.
I suppose football clubs can hire whoever they want, but I'm really enjoying the fact that WW (under GA at least) aren't bringing in people like that anymore. We had our fingers burned with the likes of Leon Knight and I'd argue Tommy Doherty (cue criticism!) and I hope the next Wycombe manager follows this policy. I was disappointed to see some Wycombe fans on social media (young men, judging from their profiles, which is troubling) calling for Wycombe to sign Ched Evans when he was available, who whether he is guilt of rape or not is undoubtedly a pretty despicable human being with an appalling attitude towards women. With regards to players with violent tendencies, I'm perhaps being hypocritical as I always loved to see Jason Cousins and Steve Brown booting opposition strikers up in the air, but to me there's an instability to the likes of Barton that means they can't a) Control it, in the way that Brown and (mostly) Cousins could and Leave it on the pitch when the final whistle blows.
I agree with the posters above that managers should hold themselves (and be held) to higher standards than their players. How can Barton discipline a player for getting sent off for throwing a punch or putting in a reckless tackle when he's going around attacking opposition managers? Still, as @Malone says, Fleetwood knew what they were getting when they offered him the job and can't be surprised that he's managed to go less than a season without decking someone. He can bang on about how much Nietzsche he reads all he likes, the guy's got anger management issues and needs to seek help.
@Jonny_King , did the lad King have more than one incident of lady bashing?
Or did you maybe mean that Nile Ranger clown?
He must have had absolutely exceptional talent, as clubs literally couldn't stay away from him despite the latest horrible bit of behaviour.
We had our little spell of "wrong uns" with Zebroski and Gavin "has a cold" Grant, although the latter obviously far bypasses any other behaviour on here
"“If any of my staff did it, and when it happened (in the game with) Blackpool (when assistant Clint Hill shoved Marc Bola) I was unhappy with my staff.
“As a manager I think he needs to just step above that, rise above it.”
An inexperienced 20-30 year old in the heat of the moment I think can be more easily forgiven for throwing a left hook, even if it must still be condemned.
However, a manager is supposed to lead by example and have the benefit of age and experience.
I think you are being overly fair to 20 - 30 year olds with your forgiveness. 16 to 20 maybe, but 20+ years old and you should have a pretty good handle on your actions and its consequences.
My issue is more around the blurrings of the lines between acceptable behavior. The Punch by Bell came to mind as something I would recall first hand as being closer to an assault on another player (yes, in the heat of the moment) than just the usual handbags.
Zidanes Headbutt in the world cup final in front of a TV audience of 1/4 of a billion people was also dismissed as a "well the biggest punishment is that he let his team down".
Bell would have got a few game ban, Zidane Retired and escaped any punishment he could (should?) have received.
Now, I would claim that Zidane should be held at a higher standard than the manager of Fleetwood Town would be, regardless of who they are and would say that any assault on the pitch or in the tunnel by anyone, should be investigated by the police rather than by an inconsequential few game ban.
I should also say that it is (thankfully) a pretty rare event that something close to an actual assault happens on or off the pitch, so any such investigation would be very rare, imho. But I'm tired of and don't like the "oh he's just a player, he's showing fight and passion for his team" type excuses you always get. Its inexcusable.
Barton is one of these guys that always sounds curious as a hardman. Quite slight build, quite short, but makes up for it with unexpected violence. Very much a sucker punch kind of guy.
My main memory of him playing was his sly cowardly picking on the smallest City players. Elbowing Tevez was it? Then trying to headbutt Aguero? Not sure if Nasri was in there too.
Didn't go and try it on with Kompany and the like did he!
@Sherrinford said:
The chairman of Borehamwood is a convicted woman-beater.
I have said it before... please don't put any money into Danny Hunter's pocket by visiting his football club when we don't have a game.
Whilst I agree with the sentiments, it seems a bit harsh on all the Borehamwood supporters, the majority of which probably had no say in the ownership of their club.
Say a convicted wife beater bought our club, would you immediately stop supporting your club and try and persuade all your fellow Wycombe supporters to do the same?
I will probably regret asking that hypothetical question if Dev gives us his epistle on the subject.
I'll save Dev the job.
There seems to be a better than average measure of sanctimony in our comments on this, with much of it requiring a starting point of either "I can forgive so much but x is beyond the pale" or "We're all sinners but I've never done x (and thus it's unforgivable)".
In our, understandable, desire to separate ourselves from actions such as are alleged by Barton here, I suggest that none of us present is likely to be chosen as the template for the moral human when it comes time for the species to be produced in test-tubes and that the most virtuous of us would likely be the quickest to disclaim that title.
Let matters take their course among those with a direct concern for them, I say, and meet the eventual outcome with a wry shrug or a raised eyebrow as you see fit.
Comments
in fact some clubs welcome headbutters so much that they later go on to sign players who do it: http://www.chairboys.co.uk/onthenet/reports0304/bristolcity-h-21oct2003.htm
That Mickey Bell punch was against James Quinn, who played up front for Blackpool
Bit pedantic of me that
Managers should be held to a higher standard than players @TheDancingYak
An inexperienced 20-30 year old in the heat of the moment I think can be more easily forgiven for throwing a left hook, even if it must still be condemned.
However, a manager is supposed to lead by example and have the benefit of age and experience.
A bit of handbags aside i think if a player knocked another players teeth out on purpose on the pitch there is a chance he would be charged nowadays.
Was it Arsenal's Paul Davis who got a long ban for smashing Cockerill, possibly of Southampton?
And Ben Thatcher got a huge ban for nearly taking Mendez (?) head off v Portsmouth?
While agreeing with managers needing to be held to a higher level, it's football. We've had drunk drivers, players who've hit women, sexual assualters (who've got off, arguably on technicalities but the suspicion has remained), all cruise back into the game.
Having a bit of a scuffle in the tunnel doesn't strike me as sacking material, as "serious" as it sounds to us in the real world. Especially when it comes down to needing people to witness to it. (You saw how quickly the Barnsley guy removed his tweet)
The chairman of Borehamwood is a convicted woman-beater.
I have said it before... please don't put any money into Danny Hunter's pocket by visiting his football club when we don't have a game.
Glyn Creaser gave Westy a wallop and was sent off. We signed him days later.
Whilst I agree with the sentiments, it seems a bit harsh on all the Borehamwood supporters, the majority of which probably had no say in the ownership of their club.
Say a convicted wife beater bought our club, would you immediately stop supporting your club and try and persuade all your fellow Wycombe supporters to do the same?
I will probably regret asking that hypothetical question if Dev gives us his epistle on the subject.
Read the comments with interest and I have to say that I think Oxford Blue has made the most pertinent point. We have to be careful as this case is being investigated by the police, but I think most clubs would expect their manager to set the right example in terms of his behaviour. We are fortunate at Wycombe that we have a manager who is beyond reproach in how he conducts himself.
@glasshalffull true, but I think when you employ someone with the back catalogue of Joey Barton, you can't then be shocked at his behaviour!
They employed a guy with a record of extreme violence. An incident of extreme violence therefore shouldn't shock anyone.
Who was that absolute scumbag player who was twice jailed for sexual assault (and I believe had a string of other convictions including assault and hit and run) who kept getting contracts at (mostly) Championship-level clubs? Think his surname was King funnily enough - no relation. He must have been quite some player for clubs to even want to touch him with the proverbial bargepole.
I suppose football clubs can hire whoever they want, but I'm really enjoying the fact that WW (under GA at least) aren't bringing in people like that anymore. We had our fingers burned with the likes of Leon Knight and I'd argue Tommy Doherty (cue criticism!) and I hope the next Wycombe manager follows this policy. I was disappointed to see some Wycombe fans on social media (young men, judging from their profiles, which is troubling) calling for Wycombe to sign Ched Evans when he was available, who whether he is guilt of rape or not is undoubtedly a pretty despicable human being with an appalling attitude towards women. With regards to players with violent tendencies, I'm perhaps being hypocritical as I always loved to see Jason Cousins and Steve Brown booting opposition strikers up in the air, but to me there's an instability to the likes of Barton that means they can't a) Control it, in the way that Brown and (mostly) Cousins could and
Leave it on the pitch when the final whistle blows.
I agree with the posters above that managers should hold themselves (and be held) to higher standards than their players. How can Barton discipline a player for getting sent off for throwing a punch or putting in a reckless tackle when he's going around attacking opposition managers? Still, as @Malone says, Fleetwood knew what they were getting when they offered him the job and can't be surprised that he's managed to go less than a season without decking someone. He can bang on about how much Nietzsche he reads all he likes, the guy's got anger management issues and needs to seek help.
Marlon King? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_King#Incidents_and_legal_cases
For me the biggest disappointment in all this is that the incident was a couple of weeks too late
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/joey-barton-attack-evokes-memories-2761412
That made me chuckle Dev.
@Jonny_King , did the lad King have more than one incident of lady bashing?
Or did you maybe mean that Nile Ranger clown?
He must have had absolutely exceptional talent, as clubs literally couldn't stay away from him despite the latest horrible bit of behaviour.
We had our little spell of "wrong uns" with Zebroski and Gavin "has a cold" Grant, although the latter obviously far bypasses any other behaviour on here
Golden quotes in their from Barton
"“If any of my staff did it, and when it happened (in the game with) Blackpool (when assistant Clint Hill shoved Marc Bola) I was unhappy with my staff.
“As a manager I think he needs to just step above that, rise above it.”
I think you are being overly fair to 20 - 30 year olds with your forgiveness. 16 to 20 maybe, but 20+ years old and you should have a pretty good handle on your actions and its consequences.
My issue is more around the blurrings of the lines between acceptable behavior. The Punch by Bell came to mind as something I would recall first hand as being closer to an assault on another player (yes, in the heat of the moment) than just the usual handbags.
Zidanes Headbutt in the world cup final in front of a TV audience of 1/4 of a billion people was also dismissed as a "well the biggest punishment is that he let his team down".
Bell would have got a few game ban, Zidane Retired and escaped any punishment he could (should?) have received.
Now, I would claim that Zidane should be held at a higher standard than the manager of Fleetwood Town would be, regardless of who they are and would say that any assault on the pitch or in the tunnel by anyone, should be investigated by the police rather than by an inconsequential few game ban.
I should also say that it is (thankfully) a pretty rare event that something close to an actual assault happens on or off the pitch, so any such investigation would be very rare, imho. But I'm tired of and don't like the "oh he's just a player, he's showing fight and passion for his team" type excuses you always get. Its inexcusable.
I'm wad told that despite not playing for Southend by some contract glitch nile ranger is still being paid a hefty wage.
As in 'I was told...'
Apparently Rochdale tried to sign him in January and Oxford did last October, or at least had a look at him and decided better of it.
They should check if Barton laid a big bet on how many teeth the Barnsley manager would have at 6pm on Saturday.
"Have a bang on that" as Ray Winston might say.
Barton is one of these guys that always sounds curious as a hardman. Quite slight build, quite short, but makes up for it with unexpected violence. Very much a sucker punch kind of guy.
And he's partial to large cigars!
My main memory of him playing was his sly cowardly picking on the smallest City players. Elbowing Tevez was it? Then trying to headbutt Aguero? Not sure if Nasri was in there too.
Didn't go and try it on with Kompany and the like did he!
I'll save Dev the job.
There seems to be a better than average measure of sanctimony in our comments on this, with much of it requiring a starting point of either "I can forgive so much but x is beyond the pale" or "We're all sinners but I've never done x (and thus it's unforgivable)".
In our, understandable, desire to separate ourselves from actions such as are alleged by Barton here, I suggest that none of us present is likely to be chosen as the template for the moral human when it comes time for the species to be produced in test-tubes and that the most virtuous of us would likely be the quickest to disclaim that title.
Let matters take their course among those with a direct concern for them, I say, and meet the eventual outcome with a wry shrug or a raised eyebrow as you see fit.
Only Wycombites could give a rye shrug.
Damn. You read it before I corrected! Didn't feel right as I typed it - should have checked before posting.