That's the problem isn't it...the PL was just the start, then changing the European Cup and UEFA Cup to suit the money...it's hard now to take the moral high ground.
The players and their agents in the Big 6 are ruining the game as well with their monetary demands. Who needs £100k+ a week to live off? It's bloody ridiculous! I don't care if 100 overpaid footballers miss out on one Euro or World Cup. F&ck em!
Pogba apparently wants £500k per week to renew his contract!!
@Wendoverman said:
That's the problem isn't it...the PL was just the start, then changing the European Cup and UEFA Cup to suit the money...it's hard now to take the moral high ground.
I can't agree. The way of thinking that everything is already shitty so anything thrown at you is somehow inevitable and basically your fault has a lot to answer for.
@Wendoverman said:
That's the problem isn't it...the PL was just the start, then changing the European Cup and UEFA Cup to suit the money...it's hard now to take the moral high ground.
I can't agree. The way of thinking that everything is already shitty so anything thrown at you is somehow inevitable and basically your fault has a lot to answer for.
Not sure I completely understand that Righty. My observation was it is hard for UEFA and the PL to complain about clubs holding them to ransom for money when they have bent over backwards to accommodate them and increase their influence over the game at every point. I'm happy for them to fight it but I think they gave up their power on everything but piddling details for large amounts of money a long time ago...so remain doubtful they can or will even try to stop anything. Last time this all kicked off in the 90s though...it ended up really being about fiddling with the CL.
The only thing which gives me any hope is that The Super League logo looks like it was thrown together in five minutes. Aside from that, too many signs point to these clubs being deadly serious, and willing to ride out the wave of condemnation.
I really am torn - this could be a horrible thing for the pyramid or a great thing, depending on how it plays out. It is hard to think it will benefit any other current PL team or overspending second tier club in the short term, but in the long term there is an argument that the absence of the Plastic Six could bring some equilibrium to a pyramid which was already on it's knees and wallowing in debt.
The problem is that the big clubs will have their cake and eat it. They will have their Galacticos for their billion pound show games and then hoover up any half decent players to pad out their squads for the weekend league games that ‘they really, truly care about.’
The Premier league (and Sky) know they can’t afford to lose them so will roll over and let them field their B teams in the league who will still be on silly money
@drcongo said:
If this goes ahead I hope every game gets Chuckletrade Trophy level attendances.
The thing is they don't / won't give a sh&t if they do. The TV money dwarfs anything else.
Most of the clubs involved would be happy to drive the 'normal fans' out anyway. Means they can charge casual 'football tourists' an extortionate amount of money for an 'experience day' and also convert seating into yet more hospitality areas - anyone been to Wembley since the rebuild?
I dislike Gary Neville (not even sure why) but I have been giving him a standing ovation for his articulation of how most people feel on MNF tonight. I wholeheartedly agree with everything he says, kick em out.
I absolutely hated Gary Neville as a player, but I have to say he's one of my favourite pundits, and he's never been afraid to say what he thinks, even if it means having a go at Utd
This really buggers up the end of the season for everybody, as no-one knows the meaning of any of the games. Is anyone really fighting relegation, or will everyone be safe (if the six get booted)? Will there be playoffs, or are six going to get promoted from every division? In which case, would there be playoffs for the last spot from teams 6-9 in each division? Are West Ham and Leicester actually battling for the league title?
Relax @Shev. There is no way that they will be thrown out of the League. Everyone will rant and rave and threaten all sorts of things but ultimately everyone knows it’s all about money and those lower down know that if they lose the top six or so they will also lose a lot of money.
@bookertease said:
Relax @Shev. There is no way that they will be thrown out of the League. Everyone will rant and rave and threaten all sorts of things but ultimately everyone knows it’s all about money and those lower down know that if they lose the top six or so they will also lose a lot of money.
I think as it stands today they are more likely to be thrown out however expect them to get what they want (for now) with the version of the CL they wanted in the first place
@LX1 said:
There was no gasroom in 1992. But don't remember this same outrage when the Premier League happened. You reap what you sow.
Also how many people getting upset about this did something when mk happened? Or have been to an mk match?
While I at first wondered about the irony of the Sky gang moaning about this, but not being so moany about 92, they are nothing alike.
The teams who ended the previous season in the top flight started the first premier league season. With there being relegation and promotion from the off.
This super league is an invitation only closed shop.
Totally different things.
@LX1 said:
That's the weak excuse. The PL was the revolution, any ESL will be a natural progression after years of acceptance (even worship)
There's nothing "weak" about it.
The Premier league was a re-branding.
This is an absolute annihilation of everything that the pyramid has stood for over all these years.
The premier league can seem an impossible dream for most, but it is still a dream that can be realised. This super league is literally an impossible dream for almost all.
@LX1 said:
The Premier League is basically a 'closed shop'
You get in if you've got billions. Imagine it would be same if ESL came about. Let's be real here
Can't see Barnsley, Sheff Utd, Norwich, Watford etc in the ESL any time soon. We stopped voting people into the league decades ago. It's pish. Just because other things have also been pish it doesn't make it any better.
The difference this time from the previous sabre rattling of breakaway leagues etc is that this time it’s funded and (appears to) have a governance structure in place. So this time if they turn around and say ‘only kidding but can we have more cash?’ they will be seriously pissing off some serious backers.
So it’s gonna happen. So what happens next? If you leave them in it will feck the whole pyramid integrity. If you expel them it will feck the finances for so many clubs. Brace yourself, it’s gonna be rocky
I'm not justifying an ESL, just laughing at the hypocrisy of people who stayed silent and have deified the pl, and did nothing when mk happened.
How long did the clubs you mentioned last in the pl?
I see people talking on Sky about 'integrity' and history' and it makes me quesey tbh. "Yeah but you can get promoted to the Premier League oooo" (you'll have to go back down next year but feel grateful)
Didn’t (actually, couldn’t be bothered) to catch nice but dim Dowden’s speech. Assume a bit of handwringing, limited detail, another mention of looking at ‘fans on the board’ and the promise of a report from David Mellor?
@LX1 said:
The Premier League is basically a 'closed shop'
You get in if you've got billions. Imagine it would be same if ESL came about. Let's be real here
Face it..the distribution of football money in favour of the premier league now means there is currently zero danger of relegation for the ‘Big Six’ clubs. So this has become franchise football for them already. Now they want to extend their ‘right’ to top flight football to the European competition and save the tiresome qualification for the Champions League (which, small point, is not for champions at all). And finally they want to retain tv rights to their own matches rather than leave them with UEFA. Football is eating itself.
Of course the ESL will happen - JP Morgan very rarely put money into something that is unlikely to deliver a nice fat profit to them and they are not an organisation the mostly yank owners of the greedy 6 will want to piss off.
Sadly, if they are not kicked out of the PL and the pyramid rejigged then due to the even greater financial imbalance between the greedy 6 and the other 14 PL teams means the also rans will generally be battling for 7th place at best and the sop of a place in UEFAs third tier tournament (A bit like in France with everyone playing for second place behind PSG). Alternatively the greedy 6 will play a second stream 11 in the PL equally rendering the competition a lot less meaningful than if they were not there at all.
Unfortunately, unless FIFA (Who have failed to vigorously condemn the move so far) stand together with UEFA and the national leagues and FAs the legion of lawyers JPM & the ESL will throw at the problem means they will get their cake and be able to keep eating it.
The Rubicon has been crossed this time. I think they have everyone in check here. Either give them more money, or tell them to bugger off and still make more money.
Comments
That's the problem isn't it...the PL was just the start, then changing the European Cup and UEFA Cup to suit the money...it's hard now to take the moral high ground.
Pogba apparently wants £500k per week to renew his contract!!
I can't agree. The way of thinking that everything is already shitty so anything thrown at you is somehow inevitable and basically your fault has a lot to answer for.
Not sure I completely understand that Righty. My observation was it is hard for UEFA and the PL to complain about clubs holding them to ransom for money when they have bent over backwards to accommodate them and increase their influence over the game at every point. I'm happy for them to fight it but I think they gave up their power on everything but piddling details for large amounts of money a long time ago...so remain doubtful they can or will even try to stop anything. Last time this all kicked off in the 90s though...it ended up really being about fiddling with the CL.
The only thing which gives me any hope is that The Super League logo looks like it was thrown together in five minutes. Aside from that, too many signs point to these clubs being deadly serious, and willing to ride out the wave of condemnation.
I really am torn - this could be a horrible thing for the pyramid or a great thing, depending on how it plays out. It is hard to think it will benefit any other current PL team or overspending second tier club in the short term, but in the long term there is an argument that the absence of the Plastic Six could bring some equilibrium to a pyramid which was already on it's knees and wallowing in debt.
If this goes ahead I hope every game gets Chuckletrade Trophy level attendances.
The problem is that the big clubs will have their cake and eat it. They will have their Galacticos for their billion pound show games and then hoover up any half decent players to pad out their squads for the weekend league games that ‘they really, truly care about.’
The Premier league (and Sky) know they can’t afford to lose them so will roll over and let them field their B teams in the league who will still be on silly money
Have to say Gary Neville was quite impressive even Roy Keane seemed shocked by his passion.
The thing is they don't / won't give a sh&t if they do. The TV money dwarfs anything else.
Most of the clubs involved would be happy to drive the 'normal fans' out anyway. Means they can charge casual 'football tourists' an extortionate amount of money for an 'experience day' and also convert seating into yet more hospitality areas - anyone been to Wembley since the rebuild?
I dislike Gary Neville (not even sure why) but I have been giving him a standing ovation for his articulation of how most people feel on MNF tonight. I wholeheartedly agree with everything he says, kick em out.
I absolutely hated Gary Neville as a player, but I have to say he's one of my favourite pundits, and he's never been afraid to say what he thinks, even if it means having a go at Utd
This really buggers up the end of the season for everybody, as no-one knows the meaning of any of the games. Is anyone really fighting relegation, or will everyone be safe (if the six get booted)? Will there be playoffs, or are six going to get promoted from every division? In which case, would there be playoffs for the last spot from teams 6-9 in each division? Are West Ham and Leicester actually battling for the league title?
Relax @Shev. There is no way that they will be thrown out of the League. Everyone will rant and rave and threaten all sorts of things but ultimately everyone knows it’s all about money and those lower down know that if they lose the top six or so they will also lose a lot of money.
I think as it stands today they are more likely to be thrown out however expect them to get what they want (for now) with the version of the CL they wanted in the first place
There was no gasroom in 1992. But don't remember this same outrage when the Premier League happened. You reap what you sow.
Also how many people getting upset about this did something when mk happened? Or have been to an mk match?
While I at first wondered about the irony of the Sky gang moaning about this, but not being so moany about 92, they are nothing alike.
The teams who ended the previous season in the top flight started the first premier league season. With there being relegation and promotion from the off.
This super league is an invitation only closed shop.
Totally different things.
That's the weak excuse. The PL was the revolution, any ESL will be a natural progression after years of acceptance (even worship)
There's nothing "weak" about it.
The Premier league was a re-branding.
This is an absolute annihilation of everything that the pyramid has stood for over all these years.
The premier league can seem an impossible dream for most, but it is still a dream that can be realised. This super league is literally an impossible dream for almost all.
The Premier League is basically a 'closed shop'
You get in if you've got billions. Imagine it would be same if ESL came about. Let's be real here
Basically - Yes
Literally - No
ESL - literally YES (and the rest of you can f off - basically)
Right..so it's just a side show this 'destruction of the pyramid' stuff
Can't see Barnsley, Sheff Utd, Norwich, Watford etc in the ESL any time soon. We stopped voting people into the league decades ago. It's pish. Just because other things have also been pish it doesn't make it any better.
The difference this time from the previous sabre rattling of breakaway leagues etc is that this time it’s funded and (appears to) have a governance structure in place. So this time if they turn around and say ‘only kidding but can we have more cash?’ they will be seriously pissing off some serious backers.
So it’s gonna happen. So what happens next? If you leave them in it will feck the whole pyramid integrity. If you expel them it will feck the finances for so many clubs. Brace yourself, it’s gonna be rocky
I'm not justifying an ESL, just laughing at the hypocrisy of people who stayed silent and have deified the pl, and did nothing when mk happened.
How long did the clubs you mentioned last in the pl?
I see people talking on Sky about 'integrity' and history' and it makes me quesey tbh. "Yeah but you can get promoted to the Premier League oooo" (you'll have to go back down next year but feel grateful)
Didn’t (actually, couldn’t be bothered) to catch nice but dim Dowden’s speech. Assume a bit of handwringing, limited detail, another mention of looking at ‘fans on the board’ and the promise of a report from David Mellor?
Face it..the distribution of football money in favour of the premier league now means there is currently zero danger of relegation for the ‘Big Six’ clubs. So this has become franchise football for them already. Now they want to extend their ‘right’ to top flight football to the European competition and save the tiresome qualification for the Champions League (which, small point, is not for champions at all). And finally they want to retain tv rights to their own matches rather than leave them with UEFA. Football is eating itself.
Of course the ESL will happen - JP Morgan very rarely put money into something that is unlikely to deliver a nice fat profit to them and they are not an organisation the mostly yank owners of the greedy 6 will want to piss off.
Sadly, if they are not kicked out of the PL and the pyramid rejigged then due to the even greater financial imbalance between the greedy 6 and the other 14 PL teams means the also rans will generally be battling for 7th place at best and the sop of a place in UEFAs third tier tournament (A bit like in France with everyone playing for second place behind PSG). Alternatively the greedy 6 will play a second stream 11 in the PL equally rendering the competition a lot less meaningful than if they were not there at all.
Unfortunately, unless FIFA (Who have failed to vigorously condemn the move so far) stand together with UEFA and the national leagues and FAs the legion of lawyers JPM & the ESL will throw at the problem means they will get their cake and be able to keep eating it.
The Rubicon has been crossed this time. I think they have everyone in check here. Either give them more money, or tell them to bugger off and still make more money.
Thank God we've dodged that bullet.
They have not stated the other three permanent members yet. We are not out of the woods!