FOI unsurprisingly doesn’t give you access to an individual’s medical records. Imagine wasting an NHS Trust’s time right now by making them reply to that sort of rubbish.
The best time to plant an oak tree was 20 years ago; the second-best time is now. The best time to stop this pandemic was in January. The second-best time is now. And while we’re working this ground together, it would be good to remember that over the fence, in the neighbouring allotment, Ireland is tackling some of the same problems as the UK. It might be worth taking a peek over the fence sometimes, to see what we can share.
@Chris said:
FOI unsurprisingly doesn’t give you access to an individual’s medical records. Imagine wasting an NHS Trust’s time right now by making them reply to that sort of rubbish.
It’s batshit crazy. The relentless normalising of Johnson’s lies though is always going to tip some people over.
Some idiot set fire to a 3g/4g router that had just been extended to help service in a hospital in Ireland a couple of days ago, reports of 20 attacks over weekend, spreading this crap to people who might not understand or see it s all fun has consequences, I can tell you people going into hospital with covid are often older and are made to go in alone for fear of spreading, getting through to the hospital or time to speak to a doctor is very difficult, people being able to make a quick text or call to tell their families how they are , where allowed, is very important.
Social networks needs to take this seriously for once, they enabled so much proven fakery and only pull messages long after damage is done rather than taking action against people.
There's a very interesting article in today's Times (sorry RITM for ruining your desire to isolate yourself from the newspapers) which quotes epidemiologists who think it will be 12-18 months before football can be played in front of crowds. In the meantime, even to play in empty stadia, every player, member of support staff, and member of media will need to go through a rigorous period of self isolation and regular testing (not that the tests are yet available at the scale required) before then quarantining themselves away in a sealed-off environment for the duration of the crisis. Splitting them from their families and putting everyone under months of psychological torment, not to mention obscene expense. Just to play football in an arid environment which broadcasters may not have the capacity to broadcast anyway.
That's just about feasible for the Premier League but lower down the pyramid? Not a chance. In which case, the inevitable conclusion is we'd have to lose not just the end of this season but all of the next. And if that's the case, what happens to squads? No club will be able to retain players and few players will be in a state to play professional football after 18 months away from the game.
Now, sure, this article is a worst case scenario. But it also strikes me as much more realistic than anything I've read suggesting we can get back to business as normal as soon as lockdown restrictions are relaxed.
Sounds more realistic tbh, even if the Prem got players together in camps world cup style to play in a few stadia and got this year finished as they seem keen to do you couldn't play a whole season like that and you would inevitably have random players or staff missing for weeks at a time whilst ill or isolating. Expense and health care resources also to be considered and very difficult in lower leagues. You'd need to be down to a few cases a week rather than hundreds to even consider it and how many deaths is too many? If a player or manager or their close family died could you expect everyone to play on.
It doesn't sell papers and here we are still discussing but just waiting is still needed. Maybe in a couple of months we are all doing better and can look at it again.
We are not really sure how many people have caught the virus and recovered and hopefully now obtained immunity.
Last week Kenny Dalglaish went into hospital for treatment on a different infection and was told he had the virus but experienced no symptoms. Once (hopefully), there are sufficient testing facilities in place we may find a third of the population are now immune. As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away, so I don't think the apocalyptic situation suggested by @aloysius is likely.
There is also the faint hope that a vaccine may be available in about 6 months which could at least initially be given to those at risk.
@drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
@mooneyman said:
We are not really sure how many people have caught the virus and recovered and hopefully now obtained immunity.
Last week Kenny Dalglaish went into hospital for treatment on a different infection and was told he had the virus but experienced no symptoms. Once (hopefully), there are sufficient testing facilities in place we may find a third of the population are now immune. As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away, so I don't think the apocalyptic situation suggested by @aloysius is likely.
There is also the faint hope that a vaccine may be available in about 6 months which could at least initially be given to those at risk.
Given that a Corona Virus is the cause of the common cold and we don’t develop long term immunity to that when we catch a cold, nor is there a vaccine against it, why would long term immunity or vaccine against this strain of the Corona virus be thought of as probable?
Not a cheery thought I know but thought I’d ask if you had read somewhere (reliable) that immunity was demonstrated.
@Wendoverman said: @drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
Amazing that someone took the time to give you a thumbs down for a post talking about your partner's cancer. Amazing.
@Wendoverman said: @drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
Amazing that someone took the time to give you a thumbs down for a post talking about your partner's cancer. Amazing.
Hopefully that is just someone clumsily trying to continue the "give a thumbs down to @wendoverman on every post" thing that @micra used to get. A sort of light gag.
@carrickblue said:
Given that a Corona Virus is the cause of the common cold and we don’t develop long term immunity to that when we catch a cold, nor is there a vaccine against it, why would long term immunity or vaccine against this strain of the Corona virus be thought of as probable?
Some common colds are caused by some types of corona virus, all types of virus mutate though. The fact that you get better from a common cold is down to your body learning to fight that particular strain of whatever you've caught.
@Wendoverman said: @drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
Amazing that someone took the time to give you a thumbs down for a post talking about your partner's cancer. Amazing.
@mooneyman said:
We are not really sure how many people have caught the virus and recovered and hopefully now obtained immunity.
Last week Kenny Dalglaish went into hospital for treatment on a different infection and was told he had the virus but experienced no symptoms. Once (hopefully), there are sufficient testing facilities in place we may find a third of the population are now immune. As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away, so I don't think the apocalyptic situation suggested by @aloysius is likely.
There is also the faint hope that a vaccine may be available in about 6 months which could at least initially be given to those at risk.
Given that a Corona Virus is the cause of the common cold and we don’t develop long term immunity to that when we catch a cold, nor is there a vaccine against it, why would long term immunity or vaccine against this strain of the Corona virus be thought of as probable?
Not a cheery thought I know but thought I’d ask if you had read somewhere (reliable) that immunity was demonstrated.
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I qualified my post with the words "hopefully" and "faint hope". I don't know how you construed that as "probable"!
Personally I would rather look on the bright side rather than dwell on the dark side.
@mooneyman I did read your post. Wasn’t having a go at you I was merely asking if you had read something on immunity being acquired as you said “ As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away”.
I asked as a microbiologist my partner works with in the NHS wasn’t convinced on immunity being acquired.
The simple answer is that no-one knows but that some degree of immunity is usual for similar past viruses.
The inevitable answer if we aren’t generally able to develop immunity and/or a vaccine Is that we will all have to adapt to going about our daily lives with a face mask attached and a higher level of annual deaths than we would currently accept.
@Wendoverman said: @drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
Amazing that someone took the time to give you a thumbs down for a post talking about your partner's cancer. Amazing.
Like our Glorious Leader...I can face a thumbs down with mighty fortitude. When you all come on out Thursday I know you'll really be clapping for me.
Last appeared April 10th, so hopefully no need to panic. He might have better things to do than discuss the politics of coronavirus. He may be distributing sweets to the NHS?Shout out @micra!
Comments
Crikey, it’s all gone a bit Josh Parker in here
I think its gone a bit William Golding
@Onlooker If you want to go full JP...
That’s it I’m outta here
FOI unsurprisingly doesn’t give you access to an individual’s medical records. Imagine wasting an NHS Trust’s time right now by making them reply to that sort of rubbish.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/14/coronavirus-uk-ireland-delay
This strikes me as the most relevant paragraph:
The best time to plant an oak tree was 20 years ago; the second-best time is now. The best time to stop this pandemic was in January. The second-best time is now. And while we’re working this ground together, it would be good to remember that over the fence, in the neighbouring allotment, Ireland is tackling some of the same problems as the UK. It might be worth taking a peek over the fence sometimes, to see what we can share.
It’s batshit crazy. The relentless normalising of Johnson’s lies though is always going to tip some people over.
There are no flies on you!
Some idiot set fire to a 3g/4g router that had just been extended to help service in a hospital in Ireland a couple of days ago, reports of 20 attacks over weekend, spreading this crap to people who might not understand or see it s all fun has consequences, I can tell you people going into hospital with covid are often older and are made to go in alone for fear of spreading, getting through to the hospital or time to speak to a doctor is very difficult, people being able to make a quick text or call to tell their families how they are , where allowed, is very important.
Social networks needs to take this seriously for once, they enabled so much proven fakery and only pull messages long after damage is done rather than taking action against people.
Getting back on topic...
There's a very interesting article in today's Times (sorry RITM for ruining your desire to isolate yourself from the newspapers) which quotes epidemiologists who think it will be 12-18 months before football can be played in front of crowds. In the meantime, even to play in empty stadia, every player, member of support staff, and member of media will need to go through a rigorous period of self isolation and regular testing (not that the tests are yet available at the scale required) before then quarantining themselves away in a sealed-off environment for the duration of the crisis. Splitting them from their families and putting everyone under months of psychological torment, not to mention obscene expense. Just to play football in an arid environment which broadcasters may not have the capacity to broadcast anyway.
That's just about feasible for the Premier League but lower down the pyramid? Not a chance. In which case, the inevitable conclusion is we'd have to lose not just the end of this season but all of the next. And if that's the case, what happens to squads? No club will be able to retain players and few players will be in a state to play professional football after 18 months away from the game.
Now, sure, this article is a worst case scenario. But it also strikes me as much more realistic than anything I've read suggesting we can get back to business as normal as soon as lockdown restrictions are relaxed.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/players-will-need-astronaut-style-isolation-to-return-pzs6fgv2s
That's a cheery morning read blooming heck
We should have a decent chance for Euro 2021 if the Premier league is the only league rich enough to isolate whole clubs for a season at least
Grim reading but until a vaccine is present or widespread antibody tests are available, it's not an unlikely scenario.
Sounds more realistic tbh, even if the Prem got players together in camps world cup style to play in a few stadia and got this year finished as they seem keen to do you couldn't play a whole season like that and you would inevitably have random players or staff missing for weeks at a time whilst ill or isolating. Expense and health care resources also to be considered and very difficult in lower leagues. You'd need to be down to a few cases a week rather than hundreds to even consider it and how many deaths is too many? If a player or manager or their close family died could you expect everyone to play on.
It doesn't sell papers and here we are still discussing but just waiting is still needed. Maybe in a couple of months we are all doing better and can look at it again.
That article is very similar to one about American sport in the magazine Sports Illustrated.
We are not really sure how many people have caught the virus and recovered and hopefully now obtained immunity.
Last week Kenny Dalglaish went into hospital for treatment on a different infection and was told he had the virus but experienced no symptoms. Once (hopefully), there are sufficient testing facilities in place we may find a third of the population are now immune. As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away, so I don't think the apocalyptic situation suggested by @aloysius is likely.
There is also the faint hope that a vaccine may be available in about 6 months which could at least initially be given to those at risk.
@drcongo I feel this way about the language around cancer...as the partner of a survivor...she did not fight harder than many others she was just lucky with doctors, surgery and the success of the treatment. And the whole period was awful and she still suffers from the effects a decade later. The idea that people die because they are not up to the fight - or are getting a bit of karma if you like for their inability to stay healthy! - always irritates me. I seem to recall Danny Baker saying he did not fight cancer...the chemicals did...he was just the unfortunate bloody battlefield. The point of the government narrative was -and is - Bozzer is Winston fighting lefties, doubters, johnny foreigner and diseases...no surrender to the microbe. Show no weakness We will win! We will get virus done!
Given that a Corona Virus is the cause of the common cold and we don’t develop long term immunity to that when we catch a cold, nor is there a vaccine against it, why would long term immunity or vaccine against this strain of the Corona virus be thought of as probable?
Not a cheery thought I know but thought I’d ask if you had read somewhere (reliable) that immunity was demonstrated.
Amazing that someone took the time to give you a thumbs down for a post talking about your partner's cancer. Amazing.
Hopefully that is just someone clumsily trying to continue the "give a thumbs down to @wendoverman on every post" thing that @micra used to get. A sort of light gag.
Hopefully they're not genuinely disliking it!
Some common colds are caused by some types of corona virus, all types of virus mutate though. The fact that you get better from a common cold is down to your body learning to fight that particular strain of whatever you've caught.
Welcome to the internet
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I qualified my post with the words "hopefully" and "faint hope". I don't know how you construed that as "probable"!
Personally I would rather look on the bright side rather than dwell on the dark side.
Personally I think the thumbs up/down should be done away with.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice
@mooneyman I did read your post. Wasn’t having a go at you I was merely asking if you had read something on immunity being acquired as you said “ As time goes on, more and more will steadily obtain immunity as the virus isn't going to go away”.
I asked as a microbiologist my partner works with in the NHS wasn’t convinced on immunity being acquired.
The simple answer is that no-one knows but that some degree of immunity is usual for similar past viruses.
The inevitable answer if we aren’t generally able to develop immunity and/or a vaccine Is that we will all have to adapt to going about our daily lives with a face mask attached and a higher level of annual deaths than we would currently accept.
Like our Glorious Leader...I can face a thumbs down with mighty fortitude. When you all come on out Thursday I know you'll really be clapping for me.
On the subject of thumbs up and down has anyone seen of heard of @micra recently?
Last appeared April 10th, so hopefully no need to panic. He might have better things to do than discuss the politics of coronavirus. He may be distributing sweets to the NHS?Shout out @micra!