@aloysius said: @rg9wwfc the thing is, we don't know if the Dutch have a better bid as we've seen neither. But in that one article alone we now have a much better idea of what the Dutch are offering then we know from the last four months of hanging around what the Americans are offering.
Both can talk about sustainability - but the fact is the club is losing lots of money and it's going to take time to get onto a sustainable footing. That article reveals that the Couhigs have invested £600k of their own money on top of paying back the original Americans' £500k. That's great - but for how much longer can they afford to write those cheques before their money runs out? I would suspect a small-city lawyer whose practice spans a mere 12 attorneys won't have as much funding as this Dutch consortium. There is also a significant question of what repayment terms are attached to these loans and in what form do they take? Straight cash injection, debt-for-equity, etc? I want to know what the Couhigs are offering and what the Dutch are.
If you want to be bought by a few months of Deep South folksy charm and the fact that Gareth likes the same music that Pete Couhig does then, well, it's a view. I'd prefer some facts be put on the table myself.
Not sure what “facts” you want put on the table. Plans and proposals yes but the fact that an NDA (or other form of agreement/understanding) has been honoured by the parties to the deal due to be revealed on Monday seems to me to reflect rather better on Ron Couhig and his colleagues than what appear to be a strategically timed public revelation via a journalist (however well respected) of the plans of a group of retired footballers.
1) what conditions are attached to the money loaned to the club so far, how much of it has been, what are the repayment terms, what does Rob Couhig get in return
2) how much more money is he prepared to plow into the club before drawing a line, what will the repayment terms be and what will he get in return
3) a detailed breakdown of his wealth and how he made it
4) a detailed plan for how to bring this club to a sustainable level, which doesn't include reliance on i) getting promoted to the Championship ii) keeping Ainsworth as manager iii) 'football fortune'
5) what provisions will be made if the plan goes wrong
6) under what conditions will he look to sell the club
7) whether his plan includes restarting a youth academy and if not, why not
8) most important of all - if he fails to deliver any or all of above, what ability do we have to extract ourselves from his ownership and how onerous will be the terms and conditions
9) who exactly will be sitting on the board, what ability we have to stop it being a stitch up for Trevor Stroud
10) what will be the role of the Trust going forward
That's just a starter for 10. If any of the Dutch/Swedish consortium are reading I'd love to hear their answers as well, then we can compare and contrast with full knowledge of what the options are if the Couhig bid does not pass the threshold.
Good luck with that @aloysius ! Are you going to ask the questions yourself? I wish the tradition of questioners giving their names before putting their questions still applied but then I only know the real names of a couple of dozen people on the Gasroom so I’d be none the wiser in any case !
With so many questions within questions and your comment that those are just for starters I am at a loss to understand how you will approach such a gargantuan task.
Just catching up with this bit of gossip. All very interestingly timed to create some doubt and mischief.
Not sure if Couhig knew of this bid or if he knew the article would come out before his decision not to attend next weeks meeting.
Personally the 'big names' make me nervous. The ghost of Tony Adams looms large for me.
@aloysius not sure you'll get answers to any of your questions if the man isn't there. He did though say he would respond to email questions quickly so I'd do that if you seriously want to ask them.
Just to put your mind at rest, I'm not a legacy member so won't be there, unless they want me to conduct an interview with Mr Couhig on stage at this or any subsequent event. But frankly, if full answers to at least a large majority of these questions don't get provided, I don't see how legacy members can possibly vote yes in good conscience. Not least because the one stick the Couhigs / Trust held over us - that a No vote would see an inextricable slide down to the National League - has now proven to be hogwash. As happened after Bill & Jim pulled out, there are others waiting in the wings - others who may be prepared to answer the difficult questions if Mr Couhig is not.
@aloysius I'd certainly like to see you ask those questions of Rob Couhig by email. Who knows maybe you'll get the facts you need to know. It's somewhat irrelevant in that context if you are a legacy member or not.
It would then be entirely up to you to share those answers, or not, with the gasroom as you saw fit.
What won't get you the answers though is asking the questions on the gasroom.
Not exactly putting this issue to bed, but the assertion by Aloysius that there are other bidders ‘waiting in the wings’ has surely been negated by Trevor Stroud’s clear statement earlier in the day.
Thought the statement was well written and its difficult to compare any reported statement of interest with guys who have put their money where their mouth is and put in some real effort. It would be a shame if people voted no on heresay.
Having said that the board have invited these leaks (which suggest if not prove continued interest) by insisting on hiding other interest in order to deal with one party at a time whilst simultaneously laying it on very thick that there are no alternate options.
The timing of the story at the top of this thread is indeed strange.
My understanding is that those who headed up the dutch consortium wanted to go to the vote without revealing the names of the famous footballers, we needed to find someone to pay June payroll and Chairmen Stroud called Mr. Couhig whose advances he had previously rebuffed.
In terms of the carefully considered questions on here, we need to make an informed decision and to do that we need to read the full prospectus and not some bullshit flyer from the same people who were delighted to do a deal Kerr and Hooper and who promised us in writing but never disclosed the details of Bill and Jim who they were so enamoured with and who mishandled the Andy Harman.
Before everyone says who don't you ask the Trust, I have and here is the response:
The hard copy which will be available at Adams Park, will be the full legal copy of the offer. We are not emailing it out because many people will not want to see the full legal version which runs to over 50 pages. Also, It is a confidential document and as such we do not want it published on Social media. As we said in the email you quote above, this hard copy will be available to read, but it will not be possible to copy it or photograph it, due to confidentiality.
Any company who is bid for who have shareholders allow people to receive the full bid details so why can't we?
If they have nothing to hide, why hide it?
The biggest hurdle for the Couhigs' bid is not the fans or the hurdle rate it is the Football Club board.
What about people who are away, live abroad or have mobility issues?
There are 850 legacy members and the board will let us have sight of one hard copy?
It is standard corporate governance to allow shareholders have a copy of the full prospectus whenever somebody launches a bid for majority control of any company, if this rule applies to multi-million pound takeovers and those companies are legally obliged to send out the full prospectus either electronically or by post, why can't we?
If we have nothing to hide, why try to?
Remember Chairmen Stroud promised to reveals the details of the previous American bid and we never saw those either.
Legacy members are season ticket holders of many years standing.
very few of those are likely to live abroad or have such mobility issues that they cant attend Adams Park. If people are away sending a document to their home is unlikely to be helpful.
Surely the key bits of the plan will be presented at this meeting next week?
People then have time to go away and think it over.
Surely not many are going to be leafing through a 50+ page piece? But if they want to, it's available. Legacy members (unless i'm mistaken), are by definition all people with 3 years of being season ticket holders, so must surely be able to get to the ground more often than not?
Perhaps its time for another reminder to some that our Board was democratically elected to work on our behalf.
I for one have no intention of ploughing my way through 50+ pages of legal documentation; I'm very happy to see/hear the pertinent points presented and ask questions if I feel the need.
However should I have been one of (I imagine) a tiny handful of people who want to see the full document but find it impossible to get to AP I would have been in touch with the club immediately I heard about it asking for my own copy but accepting I would have to sign a simple NDA.
I am eagerly looking forward to hearing the details of the deal and coming to my own conclusion on how to cast my vote.
@DevC said:
If people are away sending a document to their home is unlikely to be helpful.
Fun fact for those not as old as @DevC - in the olden days you could not receive an email on a mobile telephone, only on a computer. And computers were expensive, rare and not portable, so if you were lucky enough to own a computer then it was probably in your home and you couldn't take it anywhere.
Fun fact for @DevC - Those little rectangles of light you see young people holding, that's called a mobile phone and they can actually receive emails.
Fun fact for @DevC's carer - It's time for his meds I think.
How many of the board were democratically elected? Trevor Stroud certainly wasn't, he was waved on after another person restanding for the board decided not to at the 11th hour, for some reason, cancelling the election.
Fun fact for @drcongo , random collections of letters make words and covey meaning. Nice Carrotts mentioned posting documents to the homes of the large number of legacy members who will be away for the entire voting period (but presumably back just in time to vote).
maybe try to engage with the issues instead of the constant personal attacks.
@DevC said:
Fun fact for @drcongo , random collections of letters make words and covey meaning. Nice Carrotts mentioned posting documents to the homes of the large number of legacy members who will be away for the entire voting period (but presumably back just in time to vote).
maybe try to engage with the issues instead of the constant personal attacks.
No. He said...
and those companies are legally obliged to send out the full prospectus either electronically or by post, why can't we?
Maybe try reading people's posts properly instead of constantly picking on what you think they said.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, there's no way that you actually thought NiceCarrots said that, you just wanted to appear smugly superior so you picked your straw man carefully and sneered at it, like you always do.
The problem with not publishing the full version, as I see it at least, is there will be an increase in rumour, speculation and gossip, which will not help the Couhig's cause - but if that's the way they want to do it.....
@Tom said:
The problem with not publishing the full version, as I see it at least, is there will be an increase in rumour, speculation and gossip, which will not help the Couhig's cause - but if that's the way they want to do it.....
I would think if people don't vote yes, we would immediately go into administration and a fire sale of players in January will follow and we will tumble towards the relegation zone.
I myself don't think RC has the money to back this club how some people think.
Comments
Not sure what “facts” you want put on the table. Plans and proposals yes but the fact that an NDA (or other form of agreement/understanding) has been honoured by the parties to the deal due to be revealed on Monday seems to me to reflect rather better on Ron Couhig and his colleagues than what appear to be a strategically timed public revelation via a journalist (however well respected) of the plans of a group of retired footballers.
Sorry, Rob Couhig.
Mr Cheese has been on here forever. It’s easy to check.
So you could say a mature cheese
The facts I want, @micra, are
1) what conditions are attached to the money loaned to the club so far, how much of it has been, what are the repayment terms, what does Rob Couhig get in return
2) how much more money is he prepared to plow into the club before drawing a line, what will the repayment terms be and what will he get in return
3) a detailed breakdown of his wealth and how he made it
4) a detailed plan for how to bring this club to a sustainable level, which doesn't include reliance on i) getting promoted to the Championship ii) keeping Ainsworth as manager iii) 'football fortune'
5) what provisions will be made if the plan goes wrong
6) under what conditions will he look to sell the club
7) whether his plan includes restarting a youth academy and if not, why not
8) most important of all - if he fails to deliver any or all of above, what ability do we have to extract ourselves from his ownership and how onerous will be the terms and conditions
9) who exactly will be sitting on the board, what ability we have to stop it being a stitch up for Trevor Stroud
10) what will be the role of the Trust going forward
That's just a starter for 10. If any of the Dutch/Swedish consortium are reading I'd love to hear their answers as well, then we can compare and contrast with full knowledge of what the options are if the Couhig bid does not pass the threshold.
Some very good questions in there - hopefully all to be answered next week
Good luck with that @aloysius ! Are you going to ask the questions yourself? I wish the tradition of questioners giving their names before putting their questions still applied but then I only know the real names of a couple of dozen people on the Gasroom so I’d be none the wiser in any case !
With so many questions within questions and your comment that those are just for starters I am at a loss to understand how you will approach such a gargantuan task.
Just catching up with this bit of gossip. All very interestingly timed to create some doubt and mischief.
Not sure if Couhig knew of this bid or if he knew the article would come out before his decision not to attend next weeks meeting.
Personally the 'big names' make me nervous. The ghost of Tony Adams looms large for me.
@aloysius not sure you'll get answers to any of your questions if the man isn't there. He did though say he would respond to email questions quickly so I'd do that if you seriously want to ask them.
Just to put your mind at rest, I'm not a legacy member so won't be there, unless they want me to conduct an interview with Mr Couhig on stage at this or any subsequent event. But frankly, if full answers to at least a large majority of these questions don't get provided, I don't see how legacy members can possibly vote yes in good conscience. Not least because the one stick the Couhigs / Trust held over us - that a No vote would see an inextricable slide down to the National League - has now proven to be hogwash. As happened after Bill & Jim pulled out, there are others waiting in the wings - others who may be prepared to answer the difficult questions if Mr Couhig is not.
I reckon Aloysius’s ancestors were head honchos in the Spanish Inquisition! Some good questions, but not all will have a simple answer.
@aloysius I'd certainly like to see you ask those questions of Rob Couhig by email. Who knows maybe you'll get the facts you need to know. It's somewhat irrelevant in that context if you are a legacy member or not.
It would then be entirely up to you to share those answers, or not, with the gasroom as you saw fit.
What won't get you the answers though is asking the questions on the gasroom.
Not exactly putting this issue to bed, but the assertion by Aloysius that there are other bidders ‘waiting in the wings’ has surely been negated by Trevor Stroud’s clear statement earlier in the day.
Mischief making in the run up to the vote, watch for more “revelations”.
Thought the statement was well written and its difficult to compare any reported statement of interest with guys who have put their money where their mouth is and put in some real effort. It would be a shame if people voted no on heresay.
Having said that the board have invited these leaks (which suggest if not prove continued interest) by insisting on hiding other interest in order to deal with one party at a time whilst simultaneously laying it on very thick that there are no alternate options.
The timing of the story at the top of this thread is indeed strange.
My understanding is that those who headed up the dutch consortium wanted to go to the vote without revealing the names of the famous footballers, we needed to find someone to pay June payroll and Chairmen Stroud called Mr. Couhig whose advances he had previously rebuffed.
In terms of the carefully considered questions on here, we need to make an informed decision and to do that we need to read the full prospectus and not some bullshit flyer from the same people who were delighted to do a deal Kerr and Hooper and who promised us in writing but never disclosed the details of Bill and Jim who they were so enamoured with and who mishandled the Andy Harman.
Before everyone says who don't you ask the Trust, I have and here is the response:
The hard copy which will be available at Adams Park, will be the full legal copy of the offer. We are not emailing it out because many people will not want to see the full legal version which runs to over 50 pages. Also, It is a confidential document and as such we do not want it published on Social media. As we said in the email you quote above, this hard copy will be available to read, but it will not be possible to copy it or photograph it, due to confidentiality.
Any company who is bid for who have shareholders allow people to receive the full bid details so why can't we?
If they have nothing to hide, why hide it?
The biggest hurdle for the Couhigs' bid is not the fans or the hurdle rate it is the Football Club board.
But they’re not hiding it, as they are letting you come and view it at Adams Park.
Once it gets emailed out, they lose control of it and it could be posted anywhere on any site.
Surely that makes sense with a document of that nature?
What about people who are away, live abroad or have mobility issues?
There are 850 legacy members and the board will let us have sight of one hard copy?
It is standard corporate governance to allow shareholders have a copy of the full prospectus whenever somebody launches a bid for majority control of any company, if this rule applies to multi-million pound takeovers and those companies are legally obliged to send out the full prospectus either electronically or by post, why can't we?
If we have nothing to hide, why try to?
Remember Chairmen Stroud promised to reveals the details of the previous American bid and we never saw those either.
Let's not let apathy decide the bid.
Trust members are not shareholders.
Legacy members are season ticket holders of many years standing.
very few of those are likely to live abroad or have such mobility issues that they cant attend Adams Park. If people are away sending a document to their home is unlikely to be helpful.
Surely the key bits of the plan will be presented at this meeting next week?
People then have time to go away and think it over.
Surely not many are going to be leafing through a 50+ page piece? But if they want to, it's available. Legacy members (unless i'm mistaken), are by definition all people with 3 years of being season ticket holders, so must surely be able to get to the ground more often than not?
@NiceCarrots A full prospectus is not the same as the full legal bid document
Perhaps its time for another reminder to some that our Board was democratically elected to work on our behalf.
I for one have no intention of ploughing my way through 50+ pages of legal documentation; I'm very happy to see/hear the pertinent points presented and ask questions if I feel the need.
However should I have been one of (I imagine) a tiny handful of people who want to see the full document but find it impossible to get to AP I would have been in touch with the club immediately I heard about it asking for my own copy but accepting I would have to sign a simple NDA.
I am eagerly looking forward to hearing the details of the deal and coming to my own conclusion on how to cast my vote.
Fun fact for those not as old as @DevC - in the olden days you could not receive an email on a mobile telephone, only on a computer. And computers were expensive, rare and not portable, so if you were lucky enough to own a computer then it was probably in your home and you couldn't take it anywhere.
Fun fact for @DevC - Those little rectangles of light you see young people holding, that's called a mobile phone and they can actually receive emails.
Fun fact for @DevC's carer - It's time for his meds I think.
How many of the board were democratically elected? Trevor Stroud certainly wasn't, he was waved on after another person restanding for the board decided not to at the 11th hour, for some reason, cancelling the election.
Fun fact for @drcongo , random collections of letters make words and covey meaning. Nice Carrotts mentioned posting documents to the homes of the large number of legacy members who will be away for the entire voting period (but presumably back just in time to vote).
maybe try to engage with the issues instead of the constant personal attacks.
No. He said...
Maybe try reading people's posts properly instead of constantly picking on what you think they said.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, there's no way that you actually thought NiceCarrots said that, you just wanted to appear smugly superior so you picked your straw man carefully and sneered at it, like you always do.
Note to self: I must get to AP very early on Tuesday - I do not want to join a queue of 800 odd legacy members waiting to read a weighty tome.
The problem with not publishing the full version, as I see it at least, is there will be an increase in rumour, speculation and gossip, which will not help the Couhig's cause - but if that's the way they want to do it.....
Exactly this
I would think if people don't vote yes, we would immediately go into administration and a fire sale of players in January will follow and we will tumble towards the relegation zone.
I myself don't think RC has the money to back this club how some people think.